Command center

The place to discuss balance changes for future versions of the game.
(Master releases & 3.X)

Do you like the change implemented in ticket #3055?

Yeah
3
12%
Nay
22
88%
 
Total votes: 25

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Emdek
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Re: Command center

Post by Emdek » 16 Jan 2012, 13:20

Max units amount (or commanders amount) could depend on installing modules (but it could require possibility to just add module without rebuilding whole structure like it is done for factories and research centers).
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Re: Command center

Post by aubergine » 16 Jan 2012, 13:39

EDIT brain fail: no it was right topic, just on page 2. *sigh* i need more sleep lol

The CRC never made sense to me - surely the CC would deal with all that stuff?

IMHO the CRC should be completely re-imagined. When I was at school, my comp.sci. teacher told me that there's two types of communication tower that you'll commonly see: metal trellice, and concrete pillar.

The metal ones are cheap and quick to construct, but can't handle too much damage. That's why most countries also have a scattering of the concrete ones - they are actually designed to withstand nearby nuclear blasts, etc. The theory being that if a country was at war, the concrete ones would keep military comms alive for longer - effectively acting as hubs. Simply replace the dishes on them and they are in working order again. The trellice ones would then be constructed quickly where needed to fill blackspots in the comms network.

So, IMHO, the CRC should be a comms tower that enables better communication with droids (eg. give droids some sort of attack / manoeuvrability / speed bonus). The CC would act as a CRC by default, giving your units near your base an advantage from early in the game (eg. help defend against rush tactic). This would also make placement of CRC much more strategic decision.

It could be that a new map feature "concrete crc" exists - so players, even before they research CRC might find an old concrete pillar and build radars on it (bit like building a derrik on an oil resource) to turn it in to a functional CRC. And once they've researched CRC they can start building metal trellice towers anywhere on the map. These biuldings would then become key targets - take one out and you affect all enemy droids within it's radius.

EDIT: Thinking about this more, I think the main effect of a CRC should be faster land droids - so the CRC is described as relaying map info to droids using a stronger local signal, as a result the droids don't have to rely on sight as much and can open the throttle to go faster because they have better idea of the terrain. This could have a big effect on droids ability to get to enemy and engage it's forces faster.

EDIT 2: CRCs could also affect abilities of defence buildings - eg. artillery could get more accurate based on faster and reliable data feed from a CRC in the field.

Furthermore, the new radar jammer tower could have an effect on enemy CRC towers.
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Re: Command center

Post by Searge-Major » 16 Jan 2012, 14:41

aubergine wrote: EDIT: Thinking about this more, I think the main effect of a CRC should be faster land droids - so the CRC is described as relaying map info to droids using a stronger local signal, as a result the droids don't have to rely on sight as much and can open the throttle to go faster because they have better idea of the terrain. This could have a big effect on droids ability to get to enemy and engage it's forces faster.

Furthermore, the new radar jammer tower could have an effect on enemy CRC towers.
Rather than that, which IMO doesn't make sense ( hey, everyone's entitled to an opinion :)), i think that researching CRC should require Synaptic Link Data Analysis as well as sensor and hardened sensor tower, and instead of allowing command turret to be researched, gives the ability to assign commanders in the field [1]. These commanders would work the same way as the old ones, while being able to use their own weapons [2]. This would make commanders much more MP friendly, as it would be almost impossible to tell which unit is the commander, and would allow for a much broader range of strategies and tactics, as well as simplifying micromanagement and encouraging recycling?, which I believe could make game play a lot more interesting.

[1] I though that this could be done by implementing a button in the menu that pops up when you right click on a unit. The button would have to be made available only after building CRC.
[2] Example: You have ten hmg cobra hts. After building CRC, one of them, say your most experienced one, you assign as a commander. It's current XP is then halved (or maybe some other workaround), and it can command as many units as a current commander with the same XP could. Attacking with it would appear the same?[3] as targeting with a sensor unit, ie a red crosshair appears over the target, which is of course invisible to your enemies, giving them no indication as to which unit (if any) is the commander.
[3] Perhaps a different colour could be used for attacking with a commander? Or else a different indicator, maybe brackets.

Note to the devs: Sorry if my suggestions would be hard implement, I just came up with the ideas, and have no idea how much coding and/or changes to existing code would have to be done. :(
And, as I say, it's just my opinion. :D

Afterthought: This is actually starting to look more like a feature request... leave it up to the mods to decide. :)
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effigy
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Re: Command center

Post by effigy » 18 Jan 2012, 01:57

Emdek wrote:
effigy wrote:There are ways to make the CC more useful while keeping some tradition.
What about this way?
No, CRC would make sense as-is if Commanders were made an attractive option outside of the campaign.

I was thinking that the CC should get the properties of all other types of sensor tower (minus sat-uplink) when they are researched.
This is why some features aren't implemented: http://forums.wz2100.net/viewtopic.php?f=30&t=7490&view=unread#p87241

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Re: Command center

Post by Iluvalar » 18 Jan 2012, 06:46

I voted "yeah".
The CC brakes all rules in game mechanic. You want to delay design ? make the player research for viper... that's it. We dont need a specific building for that.

I also agree that the CC should reintegrate the game with another more interesting function. I suggested to per it could provide a special bonus and we'd need to chose one of the 4 CC of the game. I dont believe the radar is something we can chose to sacrifice...
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Re: Command center

Post by Reg312 » 18 Jan 2012, 15:02

Current CC working good, why should change it?
destroying CC has annoying result and it good, player must defend his base!
game should refer to real life and having command center looks real :)
Iluvalar wrote:I voted "yeah".
and we'd need to chose one of the 4 CC of the game
why forcing player to chose 1 option from 4 ? why player cannot select 2 CC at one time?
this idea sounds like making some kind of RPG game instead RTS :)
giving different starting bonuses to players does not refer to Warzone (its my opinion)

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effigy
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Re: Command center

Post by effigy » 18 Jan 2012, 23:57

Iluvalar wrote:I voted "yeah".
The CC brakes all rules in game mechanic. You want to delay design ? make the player research for viper... that's it. We dont need a specific building for that.
How about a research lab?
I also agree that the CC should reintegrate the game with another more interesting function. I suggested to per it could provide a special bonus and we'd need to chose one of the 4 CC of the game. I dont believe the radar is something we can chose to sacrifice...
This is only a good idea if it leads to factions. However, it would come at the price of a complete redesign of the tech tree.

The only idea I've read here that I don't think is a good fit Warzone is giving the CC the power to spy on map locations (UAV?). It's double-duty with the sat-uplink. Everything else sounds better suited for a sequel, though.

The idea I like the most here is the CC being cheap, and giving a small amount of power... like 1 oil derrick worth, or less, for the sake of rebuilding a destroyed base.
This is why some features aren't implemented: http://forums.wz2100.net/viewtopic.php?f=30&t=7490&view=unread#p87241

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Iluvalar
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Re: Command center

Post by Iluvalar » 19 Jan 2012, 00:59

effigy wrote: This is only a good idea if it leads to factions. However, it would come at the price of a complete redesign of the tech tree.
I dont think factions need anything more. A small boost in one area would probably be enought to make players change their build orders and their research path. Enought so after 10-15 minutes of game play, the "factions" would be visible.
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effigy
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Re: Command center

Post by effigy » 19 Jan 2012, 03:13

So, what you meant to say was that the CC you chose would determine which bonus you get? UAV, Overdrive PowerGens, small power boost, etc?
This is why some features aren't implemented: http://forums.wz2100.net/viewtopic.php?f=30&t=7490&view=unread#p87241

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Re: Command center

Post by Iluvalar » 19 Jan 2012, 03:30

I dont think UAV is a god idea, dealing with opening the game partially would lead to too much complexity to balance. But yeah, 20% power upgrade, 60% research upgrade, 60% production, 30% hp... something like that.

Edit: hmm after all, not sure about research upgrades in standard... would be bad...
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Re: Command center

Post by effigy » 19 Jan 2012, 03:40

Ok, that's interesting.
This is why some features aren't implemented: http://forums.wz2100.net/viewtopic.php?f=30&t=7490&view=unread#p87241

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lav_coyote25
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Re: Command center

Post by lav_coyote25 » 19 Jan 2012, 04:32

Iluvalar wrote:I dont think UAV is a god idea, dealing with opening the game partially would lead to too much complexity to balance. But yeah, 20% power upgrade, 60% research upgrade, 60% production, 30% hp... something like that.

Edit: hmm after all, not sure about research upgrades in standard... would be bad...

see!! any time some one suggests using airpower, the old stupid rules kicks in... why bother with anything if all you want is rush tactics and just 1 or 2 unit types. go play c and c or one of the other craptastic games. vtols are part and parcel of warzone 2100. if your not using the whole game, its pointless then .

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effigy
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Re: Command center

Post by effigy » 19 Jan 2012, 04:46

lav_coyote25 wrote:
Iluvalar wrote:I dont think UAV is a god idea, dealing with opening the game partially would lead to too much complexity to balance. But yeah, 20% power upgrade, 60% research upgrade, 60% production, 30% hp... something like that.

Edit: hmm after all, not sure about research upgrades in standard... would be bad...

see!! any time some one suggests using airpower, the old stupid rules kicks in... why bother with anything if all you want is rush tactics and just 1 or 2 unit types. go play c and c or one of the other craptastic games. vtols are part and parcel of warzone 2100. if your not using the whole game, its pointless then .
I agree.... I think... but nobody mentioned vtols. :ninja:
This is why some features aren't implemented: http://forums.wz2100.net/viewtopic.php?f=30&t=7490&view=unread#p87241

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Re: Command center

Post by lav_coyote25 » 19 Jan 2012, 18:27

Iluvalar wrote:I dont think UAV is a god idea, dealing with opening the game partially would lead to too much complexity to balance. But yeah, 20% power upgrade, 60% research upgrade, 60% production, 30% hp... something like that.

Edit: hmm after all, not sure about research upgrades in standard... would be bad...

read the red hilighted text. is this not yours???? uav = vtol / aircraft. so. yeah. i stand on what i said.

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Re: Command center

Post by Iluvalar » 19 Jan 2012, 18:35

[quote="Per in "Power rebalance""]
I would suggest a choice of three abilities available as buttons when you click on it, with a shared cooldown timer: 1)[...] 2) Scan ("Send UAV reconnaissance"?) that gives vision for a very short period of time of particular place on the map, like in Starcraft. 3) Boost power [...]
[/quote]
So no, we are not talking about vtol propulsion, but we are talking about a command center ability to open an area of the map with a special power.
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