Balance 3.1. Is possibly to fix before 3.2?

[NoQ]

In what line you have this issue?

The whole "NOT BURNING" column. I think there's something wrong with damage modifier it takes.

I think 18/14 is better, i can suggest to reduce constant BURN_DAMAGE.

If we set BURN_DAMAGE to 0 and keep the rest as already done in my patch (24/22), would it be enough?

[crab_]

The whole "NOT BURNING" column. I think there's something wrong with damage modifier it takes.

I dont have this issue.

If we set BURN_DAMAGE to 0 and keep the rest as already done in my patch (24/22), would it be enough?

Not sure.
But it will be great step if BURN_DAMAGE will be killed.
I had suggested this long time ago, but my suggestion were not heared unfortunately

Well i think it is enough if set burn_damage to zero, and incendiary damage from 28 to 24.
I want test it

[crab_]

I would suggest do not afraid of my patch with long list of changes

[NoQ]

The whole "NOT BURNING" column. I think there's something wrong with damage modifier it takes.

I dont have this issue.

[crab_]

The whole "NOT BURNING" column. I think there's something wrong with damage modifier it takes.

I dont have this issue.

2013-11-02-212333_3200x1080_scrot.png

What wrong on this picture?
Damage modifier - propulsion damage modifier.

[NoQ]

Why is damage modifier different for old and new weapons? Why is not-burning DPS different for old and new weapons?

[crab_]

Why is damage modifier different for old and new weapons? Why is not-burning DPS different for old and new weapons?

Because in your patch you changed damage modifier for flamers from 100% to 80% for half-tracks

[*]Modifiers:

• vs. Halftracks: 100->80.
• vs. Tracks: 90->70.

[NoQ]

Oh wow. Seriously
Maybe leave this out then?

[crab_]

Oh wow. Seriously
Maybe leave this out then?

Agreed.

Try to play more with DPS calculations.
Here is list of research times

ResTime for NoQ.xlsx

(55.42 KiB) Downloaded 191 times

You can see, for example, what damage upgrades and what thermal armor upgrade is ready at time 20:00 and next calculate DPS of inferno to python and you can see impact of your changes.
In excel you have to copy whole line (to be sure formulas not damaged) and then change values of armor, armor upgrades etc.

[NoQ]

• balance-3-1-1-v2.patch

  (26.64 KiB) Downloaded 169 times

Changelog changelog:

• Further decrease MG health and damage modifiers, make down ROF upgrades smoother.
• Further decrease flamer damage, remove unconditional burn damage, but no longer touch modifiers.

Complete changelog:

Spoiler:

• Nerf machineguns. Reduce role of machineguns as meat shields.
  • Twin Machinegun, VTOL Twin Machinegun, Bunker Twin Machinegun:
    • Hit Points 125->75.
  • Heavy Machinegun, VTOL Heavy Machinegun, Bunker Heavy Machinegun:
    • Hit Points 150->75.
  • Assault Gun, VTOL Assault Gun, Bunker Assault Gun:
    • Hit Points 250->125.
  • Twin Assault Gun:
    • Hit Points 300->125.
  • Modifiers:
    • vs. Halftracks: 60->50.
    • vs. Tracks: 50->40.
    • vs. Medium structures: 80->65.
    • vs. Hard structures: 50->40.
    • vs. Bunkers: 75->50.
  • Upgrades:
    • First ROF Upgrade 17->20.
    • Second ROF Upgrade 34->38.
    • Third ROF Upgrade 50->46.
  • Burn damage:
    • Unconditional burn damage 15/sec->0/sec.
• Buff cannons, in order to match them up with rockets.
  • Light cannon, VTOL Light cannon:
    • Hit Points 200->250.
    • Research Points 2400->1800.
  • Assault cannon:
    • Damage 35->40, Splash 25->35.
• Nerf flamers. Don't let flamer hovers chase other hovers.
  • Flamer:
    • Price 40->60.
    • Incendiary damage 28->22.
  • Flamer Cyborg:
    • Incendiary damage 22->20.
  • Inferno:
    • Price 110->130.
    • Weight 500->5000.
    • Incendiary damage 32->28.
  • Plasmite:
    • Price 130->160.
    • Weight 750->5000.
    • Incendiary damage 50->40.
  • Incendiary mortar:
    • Incendiary radius 192->128.
  • Incendiary howitzer:
    • Incendiary radius 256->192.
    • Incendiary damage 32->28.
• Nerf hovers.
  • Hover propulsion:
    • Price 100->150.
    • Hit points 150->100.
• Nerf transports.
  • Cyborg transports:
    • Weapon HMG->MG.

[crab_]

[*]Nerf machineguns. Reduce role of machineguns as meat shields.

Actually machineguns are not meat shileds but they are good damage dealers.
They strong, they 'all-rounder', they cheap

[NoQ]

they cheap

This. They have huge HP/$.
But we can't make them expensive, it wouldn't make sense.

Also, do you have any statistics on how often they start piercing the armor (over 33% minimum)?
How much would the new 50/40 modifiers affect it?

[crab_]

they cheap

This. They have huge HP/$.
But we can't make them expensive, it wouldn't make sense.

Also, do you have any statistics on how often they start piercing the armor (over 33% minimum)?
How much would the new 50/40 modifiers affect it?

33% minimum is minimum of damage*modifier.
When you nerf modifier you also nerf minimum damage.

As far i remember machineguns are always dealing minumum damage, except early game.

I think changing modifier from 50 to 40 should instantly reduce damage by 20% in any case.

[NoQ]

33% minimum is minimum of damage*modifier.
When you nerf modifier you also nerf minimum damage.

Yeah, but armor remains the same. So it gets pierced less often.

Ok let's calculate.

HMG: 17 base damage, AG: 19 base damage, TAG: 28 base damage o_O.
Twice as much with 4 damage upgrades. Half as much with 50% modifier. So we can assume base damage is roughly what we have against slow tanks in mg-focused mid-game. Viper and Bug have 10 and 8 base armor respectively, against all other tanks we have HMG firing at 33%. Scorpion has 12 armor, which makes AG fire at 33% against all slow medium body tank. TAG is quite piercy though, but still against an unupgraded panther (something we never see) it shoots at 10/28 damage, which is only slightly above 33%.

So, yeah, right.

[NoQ]

Also, my HP changes are significant only in early game. In T2 they're around 10%.