Beta Site difficulty problem?

Do you need help? Ask here!

Bug reporting belongs here: http://developer.wz2100.net/newticket
kyonu
Greenhorn
Posts: 15
Joined: 11 Jul 2009, 06:54

Beta Site difficulty problem?

Post by kyonu » 30 May 2011, 07:41

Well, lets get on with the TL;DR story bit.

Alpha site was going nice and smooth, just like I remember it way back in the day...

But then I get to Beta site, and everything is a whole new ball game. I've tried every trick in the book on map (something)_2B (I think it's like the third mission there). It's the mission where the Collective is attacking, and you need to repel the attack and destroy their northern base.

Now I remember being able to do this with an army of about 40 tanks including a couple repair tanks, in compilation of Cannons and Lancers... However, they took everything I threw at them, ate it up, and spat it in my face. Their Lancers fire three times as fast, hit three times as hard, and their Hull-armor is ridiculous compared to my own. The game is on regular difficulty, and I just couldn't beat it!

At around 15 minutes left on a 2 hour clock, I finally built up another army after they crushed my first one, and all I had to do was take a single hill where their power generator was... And to my demise, they had at least (without exaggeration) 15 Lancer tanks just waiting. With their super firing speed, they completely obliterated my large army (again) and I took out maybe 1 or 2...

Is this normal for Regular difficulty? It's absolutely frustrating! We gain VERY LITTLE power on that map, and I ended up having to cheat just to beat it! (Gave myself 100,000 power, and ended at 50,000 power!) Why should it take so much effort and power just to beat an AI army in the middle of a simple campaign? :cry:

This is obviously a QQ thread, but this HAS to be a bug. This difficulty is NOT regular, this is insane. And to make it worse, the very next mission required almost the same amount of units with even LESS time on it, and it was an away mission! Right when I landed, I was barraged by 10 cyborgs, then 5 minutes later 10 tanks, 5 which were super-lancers.

Am I doing something wrong, or was it meant to be this painful on regular difficulty? :hmm:

User avatar
NoQ
Special
Special
Posts: 6226
Joined: 24 Dec 2009, 11:35
Location: /var/zone

Re: Beta Site difficulty problem?

Post by NoQ » 30 May 2011, 14:31

Hmm, never had any problems with these missions, even though it's well-known that collective lancers are pretty tough. An army of lancer python tracks usually does the job well enough. The next away mission doesn't even allow reinforcements, it boils down to a 5-minute straight push (though you'd like to have a repair car in the team). In any case, you shouldn't be losing a single tank on these missions. "Retreat on medium damage" button is your best friend.

kyonu
Greenhorn
Posts: 15
Joined: 11 Jul 2009, 06:54

Re: Beta Site difficulty problem?

Post by kyonu » 30 May 2011, 16:42

Well, the main problem is what my tanks are about 3/4 loss of life off of a single lancer tank, and they fire faster than my heavy cannons do. I think they're -too- powerful at the moment. Also, I think you're right about the away mission, I was thinking about a different one...

In any case, whats the deal? I was able to push through the next few levels with that same pool of 100,000 power, and then came across the mission where you need to stop Nexus from taking the sattelite command post... Well, the MOMENT I touch down, ripple rockets come flooding across and wipe out at least two units every time, sometimes 3. I don't even get a chance to do anything! They keep sending waves of lancer tanks which easily takes care of my towers and/or emplacements, and what they don't knock out their lancer VTOLs do.

Is there like... A beginner's mode or something? I'm no pro, but I've been playing WZ2100 since it was first released last century, and it has never been this frustratingly tough.
Last edited by kyonu on 30 May 2011, 16:55, edited 1 time in total.

User avatar
NoQ
Special
Special
Posts: 6226
Joined: 24 Dec 2009, 11:35
Location: /var/zone

Re: Beta Site difficulty problem?

Post by NoQ » 30 May 2011, 16:46

By the way, what game version are you using?

kyonu
Greenhorn
Posts: 15
Joined: 11 Jul 2009, 06:54

Re: Beta Site difficulty problem?

Post by kyonu » 30 May 2011, 16:53

The one found here: http://wz2100.net/download , so I guess 2.8.3. Just redownloaded it two days ago because I had a knack to play again.

matthewfarmery
Trained
Trained
Posts: 86
Joined: 10 May 2011, 19:21

Re: Beta Site difficulty problem?

Post by matthewfarmery » 30 May 2011, 17:17

you could try slowing down the game, as for difficulty, I didn't find it too hard, it was at first, slowing down the game does help a little, and there are a number of missions where slowing the game time really helps, also make sure you research / researched everything, use the time in the missions to research stuff, otherwise, with 20 + commander (high level) split between, 7 heavy cannons, 7 lancers and 6 HMG, those missions weren't too hard, and was able to walk to up the nearest base without too much trouble, after that its a cake walk

edit

it sounds like, you didn't have or not had any experienced units, or not using a high levelled commander, using a commander is worth while, and keeping your units alive, and racking up kills is even better, I suggest you start again, use 8/9 units in the first few missions, so they can rack up a bit of XP, there is a walkthough you can follow in general discussion, that helps a bit, on normal difficulty, I think I was able to complete level around the hour mark or sooner, but anyway, keep you units alive and use a commander, (and don't forget using a mortar group, (10 units) (or whatever research you done in that area

hope that helps

kyonu
Greenhorn
Posts: 15
Joined: 11 Jul 2009, 06:54

Re: Beta Site difficulty problem?

Post by kyonu » 30 May 2011, 18:03

Been there done that. I had 21 Veterens at the end of the Alpha missions and 8 of those were Commanders. I took the best Army I had, which was a Commander controlling 3 Heavy Cannons and 2 Lancer tanks, with around 40 tanks as I said before.I took out most of their stuff in the first wave, but the amount of lancers they had just blew me away. Rank did not matter, they fired too quickly and were too powerful.

Also, slowing the game down does not help. Why would it? And of course, everything was researched... This isn't about me not knowing what I'm doing, it is about the current balancing problem of the campaign. If they nerfed AI lancers, it would be FAR easier.

User avatar
Zarel
Elite
Elite
Posts: 5770
Joined: 03 Jan 2008, 23:35
Location: Minnesota, USA
Contact:

Re: Beta Site difficulty problem?

Post by Zarel » 31 May 2011, 05:24

This is definitely very strange. The campaign shouldn't be very changed at all from what it was when the game was first released; we haven't touched campaign balance at all. It's possible you've hit upon some sort of bug. Can you pinpoint what exactly feels different?

User avatar
lav_coyote25
Professional
Professional
Posts: 3434
Joined: 08 Aug 2006, 23:18

Re: Beta Site difficulty problem?

Post by lav_coyote25 » 31 May 2011, 05:36

Zarel wrote:This is definitely very strange. The campaign shouldn't be very changed at all from what it was when the game was first released; we haven't touched campaign balance at all. It's possible you've hit upon some sort of bug. Can you pinpoint what exactly feels different?
screen shots or a short in game movie would help...

kyonu
Greenhorn
Posts: 15
Joined: 11 Jul 2009, 06:54

Re: Beta Site difficulty problem?

Post by kyonu » 31 May 2011, 05:50

The only thing I notice differently is the power of the Collective's Lancer rockets. They fire three times as fast, and hit three times as hard. It's basically taking all of the research in the game and using it, from what it feels like.

I will try to get screenshots, but it's unlikely that will show anything more than weak units and lancers firing, so I will attempt to get a video... No promises though, I hate working with Fraps. :(

EDIT: Also note, my brother (whom is also a long-time WZ fan) began playing it recently and is noticing the same exact thing at the same exact location. He even needed to use the same cheat to beat it, because he was just getting obliterated. The map in question is CAM_2B, and it stays that difficult through the rest of the Beta site missions. I made it to Gamma site recently (cheats in tow unfortunately...), and the difficulty feels normal again.

I can almost bet you its just the rockets that need a nerfin'.

User avatar
NoQ
Special
Special
Posts: 6226
Joined: 24 Dec 2009, 11:35
Location: /var/zone

Re: Beta Site difficulty problem?

Post by NoQ » 31 May 2011, 06:00

Can you attach a savegame at the start of the mission? :wink:

User avatar
Zarel
Elite
Elite
Posts: 5770
Joined: 03 Jan 2008, 23:35
Location: Minnesota, USA
Contact:

Re: Beta Site difficulty problem?

Post by Zarel » 31 May 2011, 06:25

Oh, of course. They fixed the rocket upgrade bug.

Rocket upgrades used to do nothing in campaign. That bug was fixed. I can see why it'd throw off campaign balance completely. I don't really know how that should be handled.

kyonu
Greenhorn
Posts: 15
Joined: 11 Jul 2009, 06:54

Re: Beta Site difficulty problem?

Post by kyonu » 01 Jun 2011, 03:58

NoQ wrote:Can you attach a savegame at the start of the mission? :wink:
I can try, but I need to replay the game just to get there... I'm at Gamma site as I mentioned before.
Zarel wrote:Oh, of course. They fixed the rocket upgrade bug.

Rocket upgrades used to do nothing in campaign. That bug was fixed. I can see why it'd throw off campaign balance completely. I don't really know how that should be handled.
What does this mean? Upgrades for which party?

User avatar
NoQ
Special
Special
Posts: 6226
Joined: 24 Dec 2009, 11:35
Location: /var/zone

Re: Beta Site difficulty problem?

Post by NoQ » 02 Jun 2011, 12:44

Just played through beta campaign again, on the latest version ( 2.3.8 ). Yes, the collective lancers are a bit overpowered compared to yours, but that's hardly a challenge. The first level of beta campaign is still ealisy beatable in 15 minutes with just two transports full of lancer python tracks (without loosing a single one of them).

P.S. i'm getting fond of this "hero HC python tracks" thing. Five direct collective lancer rocket hits hardly make them yellow (:

kyonu
Greenhorn
Posts: 15
Joined: 11 Jul 2009, 06:54

Re: Beta Site difficulty problem?

Post by kyonu » 02 Jun 2011, 14:28

Man, I havn't had a chance to get them to Hero yet... Maybe i should strive for that next time. :)

Also, I didn't have any problems with the first campaign of the Beta mission, it was the mission "CAM_2B" which is like... number 4 or 5.

Post Reply