Urban 9 Mission Impossible ?

[Bethrezen]

hi

I just downloaded this and have progressed at a steady rate however now on chapter 2 I'm finding my self really struggling due to the unending attacks from the Collectives VTOLs dispute having massed AA defences I find I am unable to stop there VTOL attacks they just fly right though all my defences like there not even there and that’s when I have like 30 AA Turrets and like 20 mobile AA Units

Unlike the anti tank rockets which do considerable damage to all ground based vehicles I find that the AA batteries are nowhere near powerful enough its like trying to kill one of the collectives tanks using a mini gun no contest the mini gun looses they also severely lack armour and HP meaning they are unable to withstand counter attack from the Collectives VTOLs which doesn't help any

While this is little more than an irritating inconvenience which merely slows you down on most levels Urban 9 is a whole other story I have tried and tried and tried this mission time and time again every time with the same result game over I'm simply unable to secure my landing sight regardless of what landing party I start with

4 enemy bases each with a squad of 4 VTOLs making a total of 16 bombers that you have to deal with each equipped with anti armour rockets that guarantee that what ever they attack will be destroyed every time regardless of how heavily armoured it is attacking you every 15 seconds your entire party gets wiped out before the reinforcement clock even reaches 1:30 not to mention the fact that there VTOLs are so bloody heavily armoured that the mediocre AA defence I can cobble together under the continues bombardment cant even scratch them and this is on normal I'd hate to see what this is like on hard

I like a challenge a challenge I can do but this is a complete massacre ! how the hell are you supposed to defend your self ? this mission really needs to be adjusted because it's completely impossible I've tried every tactic I can think of and nothing works with out the ability to knock out there vtols I can't see how this is supposed to be even remotely possible because you get wiped out in less time then it take to call in your first lot of reinforcements

If any one has any bright ideas then now would be a good time to speak up because the only sure fire way I can think of to get past this god awful level is to cheat which is something I don't really wanna do if I can avoid it as it kinda defeats the whole purpose of playing the game

[Ilr]

Are you completely Sure this is in the Campaign? According to the numerals, the only mission like this is the one I just covered here: viewtopic.php?f=4&t=3801

...If that doesn't work, then try taking this .TXT file...

weapons.txt

(23.68 KiB) Downloaded 227 times

...And put it in a new folder called "stats" in the Warzone directory.
If that doesn't cut their damage in half (in other words: down to the amount that Ground units deal)
...then you might need to move or copy that folder to your "My Documents" Warzone folder if one exists(XP installs)

[Bethrezen]

hi

yes its the campaign chapter 2 urban 9 the mission to destroy the sam sites

I’ve read and tried the tactic suggested in the post you linked to but I cant make it work still get wiped out I already tried searching the forum looking for help before I posted thinking that maybe I was just doing something wrong but after reading its clear to me that the AA batteries are completely unbalance and unfit for purpose and this seems to be a known problem viewtopic.php?f=6&t=3764

which is why I signed up to the forum and posted because I can’t see any way to do that mission other than cheating until either the AA batteries are made much stronger or the VTOLs armour is drastically reduced so that my AA guns can actually kill them

one would think that 9 mobile AA units would be more than enough to take out 4 bombers that’s nearly a 2:1 ratio ok I might loose a couple in the process but at least they would loose there units too which would give me enough breathing room to get set up and call in more troops and actually give me a chance to complete this mission

I'll give the weapons.txt a go see if that makes any difference but I suspect that the end result is going to be the same ill let ya know

[edit]

ok tried the weapon.txt and while it did appear to reduce the attack power the end result was the same I still got wiped out before I got to 1:30 on the reinforcement clock they just come to fast even at the reduced attack power they can still destroy faster than I can create obviously that's not going to work any other ideas ??

[psychopompos]

that mission is a pain.
your gonna lose quite a few units.
take 2 trucks to fortify (you MUST build a repair station right away) & 2 experienced bunker busters to hit the defences of the first collective... outpost.
i take 3 tank killers & 3 heavy cannon to fill tee first transport & provide defence extra defence.

second transport, you need lanver-viper-vtol's (5 or 6) to kill the collective vtol's.

in the hardcore campaign mod this mission can not be done on hard, that i know of.

[Ilr]

ok tried the weapon.txt and while it did appear to reduce the attack power the end result was the same I still got wiped out before I got to 1:30 on the reinforcement clock they just come to fast even at the reduced attack power they can still destroy faster than I can create obviously that's not going to work any other ideas ??

Ahh, thanks for testing it though!, glad it *sorta* worked. I'm afraid that's as far as I am willing to go with it though. ...matter of Principle I mean... In that: I totally agree with you, and the AA testing as well... Even in Skirmishes, VTOLs are definitely at an immense "Tactical" advantage. But I'm not willing lower their stats myself any further below Ground-Units.(and that's Zarel's job right now anyway) And using this mission as an example... This is basically as "egregious" as it ever gets and all you have to do to stop their bombardment is somehow get Artillery up fast enough to take out just a few of those pads in that northwest corner like my screenshots show. Even though the other 2 Bases also have 2-3 pads on them, the VTOLs WILL halt their strikes once those pads are destroyed. It just happens to require a lot of Save-->Load--->Load-->Save "redos" whenever they manage to kill one of your most important units.

...Perhaps retry playing up to that point, turn your gamespeed all the way down, and get more practice at Enumerated (assigning units to keystrokes) Line-Building and Multitasking. You sound like a highly intelligent fellow, so I do believe you're more than capable of reaching the micromanagement skills required for getting past this mission (unless your pointer device is going bad like mine is right now, haha...)


Now as for what I WOULD be willing to do... if I knew where to start coding it: I would attempt to Balance mass-VTOL strikes by creating a "Turbulence" system... IE: The reason Rocket/Missile VTOL's are unbalanced IMHO is because they have such tiny Group Collision Detection versus the speeds they travel at AND they only deliver a single "payload" as opposed to all other VTOL weapons which require "Circling" (commencing) to drop their full payload (DPS). Therefore "Lighter" Vtols & Vtol-Weapons would need to suffer a tail-wind effect, spacing them out further and ultimately slowing them all down if they're flying in a cluster. And then I'd only allow them to fire 1 missile at a time, then circle around to deliver the other missile so they would be exposed to AA/Flack fire much longer than they are currently. (Or failing that, deliver 2 pairs of missiles dealing 1/2 as much damage per missile pair)

[Bethrezen]

hi

after repeated failed attempts I decided to give up and put the double up cheat on because I cant see that level being possible otherwise at least not until the VTOL/Anti Aircraft balance is sorted out

making my units stronger gave me the breathing room I needed to get enough AA up to take out there VTOLs at which point I turned the cheat off and finished the level normally

the irony in this is that this levels is actually pretty simple once you wipe out there aircraft because unlike a lot of other levels where you are dealing with a large base with heavy fortifications on this level you are only dealing with lightly defended outposts

which only requires a force of about 5 units to take out if you are using artillery to knock out there defences and maybe 15 to 20 if you are going for a direct assault

I guess the big problem is actually stopping there aircraft which in my opinion cant be done because of the faulty balance

I do hope this one is fixed soon because its a pretty serious flaw that is spoiling the game and making life much more difficult than it need be

[-Kosh-]

I guess the big problem is actually stopping there aircraft which in my opinion cant be done because of the faulty balance

I do hope this one is fixed soon because its a pretty serious flaw that is spoiling the game and making life much more difficult than it need be

This is not a balance issue.
This is the result of faulty projectile code that was never tested in campaign. It should be reverted.

[Ilr]

Yeah but I'm still right ...the easiest way to stop those VTOLs on this mission is to target them with Ripples while they're back on their lily pads, thus taking out their re-arming all together. Them froggies don't jump so high after that xD

Even on the Non-bugged 2.2.2 version, 6 Flack cannons and 4 AA emplacements were not sufficient at knocking them out of the air while a Sensor Droid and just 5 Ripple Batteries shut 'em up for good ** /e Victory Dance **

[Ilr]

PS, Rezen: Make sure you rename or remove that TXT file if you try to play Skirmish Mode
... otherwise it might not even start up

[NEXUS]

that mission is a pain.
your gonna lose quite a few units.
take 2 trucks to fortify (you MUST build a repair station right away) & 2 experienced bunker busters to hit the defences of the first collective... outpost.
i take 3 tank killers & 3 heavy cannon to fill tee first transport & provide defence extra defence.

second transport, you need lanver-viper-vtol's (5 or 6) to kill the collective vtol's.

in the hardcore campaign mod this mission can not be done on hard, that i know of.

It IS possible to beat this level in Hardcore Campaign Mode xD , because I beat the level and the campaign.

[psychopompos]

It IS possible to beat this level in Hardcore Campaign Mode xD , because I beat the level and the campaign.

where you playing on hard in the hardcore mod?
what did you do?
cause i got vtols ripping my tanks apart & TK hovers harassing my lz to the point where i cant get my forces in fast enough during the first 10 mins.

[icyflames]

The plain 2.2.2 version of this mission is really not that hard... People need to try new tactics rather than be so quick to blame the game (un)balancing.

1. Get 4+ heavy trucks. 10 could be useful as well.

2. build a big row of lancers BUNKERS (very durable) north of LZ.
- these will help fend off ground units as well as draw VTOL fire
- keep rebuilding these lancers as they get destroyed

3. get a portion of the trucks to build cyclone and whirlwind emplacements.

4. the VTOLs will stop coming after a few waves... and then this mission is like shooting rubber ducks.

[NEXUS]

Yes, it was on hard, I am about 99 percent certian that the game was set to hard.

I build many defences and walls, and howitzers, many trucks were used.

Also many re-loads were needed, so it helps to have multiple savegames for this level.

[psychopompos]

trucks only first transport, i shall try that
as soon as hardcore works with 2.2.3 :rolleyes:

[ziserman]

Here's what I did:
1) Load transport with 4 lancer python tracks (unexperienced) and 6 tracked python trucks.
2) as soon as transport lands, I slowed game speed to 0.3 (ctrl -) and started making a repair facility, lancer bunkers, as well as AA sites.
3) Load transport with 6 more AA and 4 tanks (experienced - the ones I don't use for sacrificial purposes)
4) keep repairing units and structures, as well as making new ones (even uncompleted bunkers are a good wall and can stand the same punishment as normal ones).
5) By the time I had roughly 10-15 AA sites some lancer aircraft started to being shot down. A good trick is to recognize the aircraft's targets and place them a bit to the back of your base. For instance, they attacked my AA tanks and one of them survived. I knew it was gonna be targeted again, so I moved it backwards to allow the AA to shoot some more.

But if you can't do that, I think that perhaps 8 phosphor bomb bay VTOLs and 2 trucks should do the job, if you know where their repair pads are. Sacrifice the 8 VTOLs (well if some survive - good for you) and make lancer bunkers with the trucks to survive the hover attack.

Hope I helped .