Models by Jorzi (AR)

[Slye_Fox]

I tend to agree with Corporal Punishment, but have an alternate weapon placement suggestion;
How about an over the shoulder mount like Warmachine, Preditor or a Mad Cat mk II?

[Rman Virgil]

I tend to agree with Corporal Punishment, but have an alternate weapon placement suggestion;
How about an over the shoulder mount like Warmachine, Preditor or a Mad Cat mk II?

For sure, wholesale amputations in order to be fitted into a power suit is too grisly a notion to ascribe as a normal Project procedure even though the original Pumpkin design suggests it as it looks like an attatched tank turret. 'Course evil Nexus borgs could be another story.

A weap affixed to a whole arm is clear in this design as well:

http://img264.imageshack.us/img264/4707/cyborg2af5.jpg

The subtlety in design comes into play with the hips, I think, so they look like there are still flesh and blood legs inside and that they have not been amputated to accomodate high powered metal ball sockets and full artificial legs. The hips in the "Preditor" linked image in Slye_Fox's post manages it to my eye.

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[Corporal Punishment]

True, the original model has a turret structure instead of a right arm. But then again, said turret is bulky enough to have the arm inside it. Plus, the model was suppoed to be as minimalistic as possible, so one can't tell much from it.
As far as Nexus 'borgs go, they might be subjected to surgical alterations from the ideological perspective, but it would be superflous and impractical from the technical perspective. The amputation itself and the recovery afterwards means a two month delay in bringing the 'borg on the battlefield.

[Rman Virgil]

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Here's where I let you in on a little known factoid from the quasi-official expanded WZ Timeline & Backstory.

In 2072 when Dr. Reed's company, "Synaptics, Inc.", begins the secret NEXUS research initiative, part of the program is cloning Reed himself. Eventually he perfects a cloning technique that turns off the genetic code that would fully develope limbs so that the assembly line of growth vats just grew bodies that were a head, a torso, and limb nubs, to which fully mechanical arms and legs were affixed at the same time as the Synaptic Link, thus circumventing any need for amputations and radically streamlining putting NEXUS Borgs on the battlefield (NEXUS borg factories keep a cryoed surplus inventory of these torsos on hand ready for hook up and activation). The added boon was that all NEXUS Borgs were Reed clones, driven as one hive mind, thru the synaptic link, and Reed's clinically diabolical NEXUS A.I...
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[Jorzi]

Nice discussion going on here

I'm kind of interested in the shoulder mounted gun concept. The main thing I want to convey with my design is a mount that is sturdy enough to handle an actual cannon (probably something like 30-50mm).
Now that I think of it, I agree that we should honour the original concept of "powersuits". However, the super cyborgs, I think, are large enough that the human is seated inside the body, controlling entirely robotic limbs.

[Corporal Punishment]

You are probably right about the super cyborgs. I think that under their armor is something like the powerloader from Alien 2. As far as a shoulder mount for the cyborg goes, a big problem would be balance, I suppose. If all the weight rests on his right shoulder, as it does in the current model, he'd topple over sooner or later. You might want to look into making a sort of left-centric back module that contains part of the weaponry and acts as a counterweight. It could be a ammo container or a heat sink. For the actual shoulder-mounted hard point it might be wise to design it as sitting on a ball joint on the armor's pauldron, supportey by hdraulic shock absorbers, and to give it a handle the soldier can grab or let go of as the situation requires. While operation via synaptic link is possible, hand-eye coordination is a highly advanced, reliable and hard to emulate system, so why slab together some synaptlic link interface instead of using what is already there.

[Hesterax]

When you compare the cyborgs to scavenger units, you can see a large difference in size. They seem to be closer to Mechs than Cyborgs to me. What Jorzi made is closer to a cyborg.

[Rman Virgil]

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I've looked at hundreds of different cyborg designs and from the realistic engineering perspective that's been raised here I think the Metal Gear Solid Power Suits come closest. Check it out:

http://metalgear.wikia.com/wiki/Powered_suit

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As for WZ's scale - it's very inconsistent, all over the map really, and some objects were never meant to be seen side by side in game - like 50 gal. drums and, well, anything.... just one example.

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[Hesterax]

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I've looked at hundreds of different cyborg designs and from the realistic engineering perspective that's been raised here I think the Metal Gear Solid Power Suits come closest. Check it out:

http://metalgear.wikia.com/wiki/Powered_suit
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Seems to be loosely based on the already made HULC Exoskeleton used in the military. Interesting though would be hard to add to the game.

[Rman Virgil]

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Seems to be loosely based on the already made HULC Exoskeleton used in the military.

I can see the resemblance. BTW, Metal Gear has been around since 1987 and HULC first began dev in 2000. I also see the diff for WZ as all flesh covered with armor, 'cept. for the face.

...Interesting though would be hard to add to the game.

How would it be more difficult than putting XANAX's Mechs in game ?

viewtopic.php?f=6&t=11005#p121995

EDIT: For typo - left out "the" in the sentence "I also see the difference......"
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[Hesterax]

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...Interesting though would be hard to add to the game.

How would it be more difficult than putting XANAX's Mechs in game ?

viewtopic.php?f=6&t=11005#p121995
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The problem here is creating and animating a human in order to operate (and complete) the suit, would add quite a lot of polygons. XANAX's Mechs are only mechanical monsters in this case. I remember reading that the WZ engine has its limits...

[Rman Virgil]

....
The problem here is creating and animating a human in order to operate (and complete) the suit, would add quite a lot of polygons. XANAX's Mechs are only mechanical monsters in this case. I remember reading that the WZ engine has its limits...

Sorry for the confusion, and lattitude to assume (my fault for being lazy in my posting in the name of brevity ), I was proposing bone animating humans when I was not. I should have been clearer like I think this -

....I also see the diff for WZ as all flesh covered with armor, 'cept. for the face.

... makes clear there was no proposing animating a human in one power suit over a human in another power suit as it would not be necessary (or feasible or even possible at present without huge codeing development, as I have known, well, forever Plus AR is working within the extant code limits of no bone animation support, as of yet, and I wouldn't propose doing something beyond what exists to support it.)

The reason for bringing up the the Metal Gear power suit in the first place was not bone animation but rather because it was like a cut-away mechanical drawing werein you could see how the armor was articulated in relation to the human joints within the suit and how the weaps were mounted on the back of the torso instead of the arm. That's the all of it - just trying to relate to the engineering points that came up in the proceeding posts - discussion. So the diff between the XANAX Mechs and the re-booted Power Suit would be the art of a human head in a helmet and the armor joint articulation to indicate a normal, fully limbed human body encased within .... as opposed to a human in a cockpit controlling robotic arms and legs whose articulation need not account for human anatomical function.

(The limits of the WZ engine have been clear from how the original borg anim was done 15 years ago plus the whole scale, playing distance and PoV differences between an FPS and an RTS.)

Hope I've cleared up the thinking behind my original post.
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[Hesterax]

....
The problem here is creating and animating a human in order to operate (and complete) the suit, would add quite a lot of polygons. XANAX's Mechs are only mechanical monsters in this case. I remember reading that the WZ engine has its limits...

Sorry for the confusion, and lattitude to assume (my fault for being lazy in my posting in the name of brevity ), I was proposing bone animating humans when I was not. I should have been clearer like I think this -

....I also see the diff for WZ as all flesh covered with armor, 'cept. for the face.

... makes clear there was no proposing animating a human in one power suit over a human in another power suit as it would not be necessary (or feasible or even possible at present without huge codeing development, as I have known, well, forever Plus AR is working within the extant code limits of no bone animation support, as of yet, and I wouldn't propose doing something beyond what exists to support it.)

The reason for bringing up the the Metal Gear power suit in the first place was not bone animation but rather because it was like a cut-away mechanical drawing werein you could see how the armor was articulated in relation to the human joints within the suit and how the weaps were mounted on the back of the torso instead of the arm. That's the all of it - just trying to relate to the engineering points that came up in the proceeding posts - discussion. So the diff between the XANAX Mechs and the re-booted Power Suit would be the art of a human head in a helmet and the armor joint articulation to indicate a normal, fully limbed human body encased within .... as opposed to a human in a cockpit controlling robotic arms and legs whose articulation need not account for human anatomical function.

(The limits of the WZ engine have been clear from how the original borg anim was done 15 years ago plus the whole scale, playing distance and PoV differences between an FPS and an RTS.)

Hope I've cleared up the thinking behind my original post.
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Now I see... Sorry for seeing your previous posts like I did

[AWarZoner]

Remodeled the legs for a more naturally polygonal feel.

Very Good! I hope too see it in the next ArtRev version!

[Jorzi]

Currently in the countryside, unfortunately I left the cyborg files on my other computer so I have to continue that one later.
Meanwhile: Up-armored schoolbus