Rebalancing the cost and stats of collective bodies would be rather difficult.
Most players on multiplayer (the ones that win somewhat often anyway) agree that Collective bodies are pretty much not worth using when their alternatives are considered.
There is almost no reason to *ever* use a leopard over a Scorpion. The only possible reason is that leopards don't need a factory module...
So lets make them available before factory modules, otherwise, they won't see any use.
My suggestions for Leopard prereqs:
Engineering -> Fuel Injection Engine ->Leopard light body
rather than: having to go all the way to:
Dense Composite Alloys
Dedicated Synaptic Link Data Analysis
which means heavy bodies have been around for a *long* time
Panther prereqs:
Factory Module -> Composite Alloys -> Panther
Tiger: Panther, Composite Alloys mk3, Fuel Injection Engine mk2
It would make more sense to have Leopard use the first armor upgrade, and the bug to use the first engine upgrade (currently the other way around) since NP bodies are faster, and collective bodies stronger, and scorp+mantis currently need engine upgrades while path+tiger currently need armor upgrades.... but if bug was available that early, vipers would nearly disappear, from usage, and leopards would never be used as they would again have factory module as a pre-req - unless we switched the factory module and composite alloys, such that you research composite alloys first, then the module.
Even so, I think the window between when you get leopards, and when you get medium bodies would be too small.
I don't think collective bodies making an appearance so early would be imbalanced, having them appear nearly at the same time as the project bodies, is OK I think.
Thoughts?
I may just mod this, is anyone willing to test it online with me?
*edit* I'll spare the calculations, but I've determine that leopard twin MG half tracks are cost effective vs vipers twin mg half tracks, with the minimum upgrades needed for TwinMg-Viper-HalfTracks. (ie engineering, 2 mg damage upgrades)
Its less clear with wheels, with the relative HPs being closer (due to the fixed twin MG hp, and the body hp having a lower multiplier), however, the leopard armor is more effective in this case as it doesn't run into the 30% minimum damage. There is also the fact that if vipers die off faster, their firepower reduces faster, but this takes too much calculation for my tastes.
I have identified a timepoint when leopard could be useful.
they are slower though, so less useful in a rush, and less useful to counter a rush if out of position, I think they would fit in well at this point.
Bug is already used at times, as is retaliation (for vtols with expensive weapons, for fast rearming time, particularly scourge-retaliation vtol as defensive fighters)
Calculations for panther may come later
Idea on what to do with Collective bodies.
Re: Idea on what to do with Collective bodies.
I like this idea, currently the Collective bodies are more or less useless, as the NP and Project bodies are more usefull at the moment. Only the AI seems to be able to use the Collective bodies properly at the moment, and that is only because they use cheats.
My nicknames - Mattbrit -> TankMaster -> Dr Reed -> ??? 
Re: Idea on what to do with Collective bodies.
Use them properly?
I wouldn't say that, the AI uses them, but it doesn't do most things properly, which is why it has to cheat.
They use some weapons and bodies, long after they are obsolete.
They have no concept of concentration of force, or artillery wars, or adequate air defense.
Just because the ai uses them, I wouldn't assume the manner it uses them is "proper"
If the leopard isn't available before Cobra, its pretty much not going to get used at all.
I wouldn't say that, the AI uses them, but it doesn't do most things properly, which is why it has to cheat.
They use some weapons and bodies, long after they are obsolete.
They have no concept of concentration of force, or artillery wars, or adequate air defense.
Just because the ai uses them, I wouldn't assume the manner it uses them is "proper"
If the leopard isn't available before Cobra, its pretty much not going to get used at all.
Re: Idea on what to do with Collective bodies.
I use the collective bodies as a defencive role.
They do have better armour than the project bodies but are slower.
Usually I have them defend choke points or as a back up defence for my base, they also make good AA Tank as they can take a beating.
I usually use them untill I research Nexus bodes but then all my units are upgraded with Nex Bodies then I usually use the Red bodies as a defence.
So I use them and they can help get out of tight spots and are good agaist larger units and even as decoys to draw fire.
Really all you need is to get the right combo and the right strategy for these bodies and you would find that they can be very useful.
Basicly I use Project Bodies as my main force units, NP as fast attack vehicles and large forces to go in and out (usually use them to attack forts if they ever get made or even to attack Laser Sat) then I use Collective as a mobile defence force and to take and hold choke points or other base locations (usually use them to defend oil sites) untill I research the NX Bodies then those just fill in all roles apart from the NP role and the red bodies take over the defence role once researched.
So idk really I my self dont think there should be a change in the collective bodies apart from a small increse in HP to make it even better for defence roles.
They do have better armour than the project bodies but are slower.
Usually I have them defend choke points or as a back up defence for my base, they also make good AA Tank as they can take a beating.
I usually use them untill I research Nexus bodes but then all my units are upgraded with Nex Bodies then I usually use the Red bodies as a defence.
So I use them and they can help get out of tight spots and are good agaist larger units and even as decoys to draw fire.
Really all you need is to get the right combo and the right strategy for these bodies and you would find that they can be very useful.
Basicly I use Project Bodies as my main force units, NP as fast attack vehicles and large forces to go in and out (usually use them to attack forts if they ever get made or even to attack Laser Sat) then I use Collective as a mobile defence force and to take and hold choke points or other base locations (usually use them to defend oil sites) untill I research the NX Bodies then those just fill in all roles apart from the NP role and the red bodies take over the defence role once researched.
So idk really I my self dont think there should be a change in the collective bodies apart from a small increse in HP to make it even better for defence roles.
The world will only achive peace through the fire of war.
Re: Idea on what to do with Collective bodies.
Ummmm I'm going to guess you don't play multiplayer.
Consider a leopard
It is weaker (in HP and armor) than a scorpion.
It is slower than a scorpion
It is more expensive than a scorpion
It takes longer to research than Scorpion
How is it in *any* way useful?
Are you going to tell me you've made it through all those research upgrades and gotten dense composite alloys, but you havent upgraded your factories with even 1 module?
Likewise, Panther has lower armor than a mantis, is slower, has less HP, is more expensive, and requires more research.
It is inferior in every way.
Tiger is the only body that actually has an advantage over other bodies of similar tech level, the other two bodies are just plain inferior to bodies of equal or lesser tech levels.
I'm also going to guess you play T3, as I never bother to get red bodies.
I only get Nexus bodies if the game has devolved to a stalemate, otherwise, even with Pulse laser, Mantis bodies are more cost effective.
Heck, even with gauss. Not to mention the cheap Twin AG is still remarkably effective, and is most cost effective when paired with mantis.
I use nexus bodies when I have time to hit the unit cap, or I need the extra armor and health to actually allow my vtols to get within bomb range (though unless the enemy uses splash damage AA, using cheaper scorpions is better, and just overwhelming with numbers - again, this is a consideration of if I have time to reach the unit cap, on a high power map).
Consider a leopard
It is weaker (in HP and armor) than a scorpion.
It is slower than a scorpion
It is more expensive than a scorpion
It takes longer to research than Scorpion
How is it in *any* way useful?
Are you going to tell me you've made it through all those research upgrades and gotten dense composite alloys, but you havent upgraded your factories with even 1 module?
Likewise, Panther has lower armor than a mantis, is slower, has less HP, is more expensive, and requires more research.
It is inferior in every way.
Tiger is the only body that actually has an advantage over other bodies of similar tech level, the other two bodies are just plain inferior to bodies of equal or lesser tech levels.
I'm also going to guess you play T3, as I never bother to get red bodies.
I only get Nexus bodies if the game has devolved to a stalemate, otherwise, even with Pulse laser, Mantis bodies are more cost effective.
Heck, even with gauss. Not to mention the cheap Twin AG is still remarkably effective, and is most cost effective when paired with mantis.
I use nexus bodies when I have time to hit the unit cap, or I need the extra armor and health to actually allow my vtols to get within bomb range (though unless the enemy uses splash damage AA, using cheaper scorpions is better, and just overwhelming with numbers - again, this is a consideration of if I have time to reach the unit cap, on a high power map).
Re: Idea on what to do with Collective bodies.
Here is my non-paragraph soulution.
Increase all collective bodies in this way:
20% kinetic armor
10% thermal armor
10% health
Increase all collective bodies in this way:
20% kinetic armor
10% thermal armor
10% health
My multiplayer name is Verin
Usually in ideas and suggestions.
I Am also an ASE certified technician.
Usually in ideas and suggestions.
I Am also an ASE certified technician.