Traps and Waterfalls

Ideas and suggestions for how to improve the Warzone 2100 base game only. Ideas for mods go in Mapping/Modding instead. Read sticky posts first!
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JDW
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Re: Traps and Waterfalls

Post by JDW » 31 Jul 2010, 10:58

DTSX wrote:But in all seriousness, suicide cyborgs would be fun.
Hmmm... They could be. But do you see them as useful only for blowing up mines? Or are you imagining them like live bombs that run into units/structures to blow them up?
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Re: Traps and Waterfalls

Post by Roux Le Corps » 31 Jul 2010, 14:15

suicide units? excellent ^_^ i can imagine mass plasmite suicide in an enemy base right now actually
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Re: Traps and Waterfalls

Post by MetalWarrior95 » 31 Jul 2010, 15:39

j0shdrunk0nwar wrote:
MetalWarrior95 wrote:its stupid that there is senzor to detect mines,that should be mid tech, there should be first a vehicle that detonates mines,it searchs for mines,she touch the mine,its hard to explain...the front thing,like many strong thick paper that is long and when mine detects the touch and activates.

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Re: Traps and Waterfalls

Post by Wibble199 » 31 Jul 2010, 21:30

Roux Le Corps wrote:suicide units? excellent ^_^ i can imagine mass plasmite suicide in an enemy base right now actually
or just beofre they get destroyed they self-destruct :lol2:

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Suicide cyborgs

Post by Safety0ff » 31 Jul 2010, 21:52

If your enemies have focused on splash defences too much, sometimes you can send in a dispersed group of repair 'borgs in their base to cause havoc ( the AI does this to me sometimes :lol2: ).

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Re: Traps and Waterfalls

Post by DTSX » 01 Aug 2010, 05:28

The point of kamikazi cyborgs isn't as much as it is a direct threat, but a potential threat. When we play a game of WZ, we set up anti-air defenses and some anti-tank defenses since everything pretty much steamrolls cyborgs.

The problem here is that the second you even let 1 kamikazi cyborg through, you're in for a world of hurt. Because of that the wave of Kamikazis would act not only as an attack force, but also a feint or cover for the stronger units. The defenses would be focused on Kamikazis so much that the rear units and artillery could easily pummel the defenses and units without being threatened. Bunch Kamikazis with a good contingency of repair cyborgs and a few assault ones and you've got yourself a force to be reckoned with.

You could use the Kamikazis as an end-assault unit too. After you send a main force in to fight, you can mop up or even destroy during a fight. I feel this adds a whole new layer to gameplay.

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Re: Traps and Waterfalls

Post by Claydoe » 01 Aug 2010, 06:25

I love how the topic evolved! :lol2: :lol2: :lol2:

One problem with Cyborg bombers is that they could be too powerful.
If one is playing a map with plenty of oil and has upgraded factory speed, you could end up rapidly producing a steady stream of Cyborg Bombers.... That could lead to a unfair and unfun battle.... :hmm:
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Re: Traps and Waterfalls

Post by Roux Le Corps » 01 Aug 2010, 06:58

but the results could look cool, constant streams of Kamikaze borgs meeting in the centre, bigger tanks trying to get the streams to get further before they meet
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Re: Traps and Waterfalls

Post by DTSX » 01 Aug 2010, 16:18

Mmm... it's only unfair if the other person doesn't build any MG based weapons. If the other person builds any of those, the cyborgs will get demolished. The Kamikazi cyborg should be extremely weak so that the other player has a chance to destroy them all.

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Re: Traps and Waterfalls

Post by Claydoe » 01 Aug 2010, 17:07

Hmm... :hmm:
Yes I guess your right, after all they are full of explosives... :P
Still either way, power with these can great or bad.
They could be so weak that they useless or they can be so powerful they can be too strong...
If that makes sense.... :hmm:
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Re: Traps and Waterfalls

Post by Assault Gunner » 01 Aug 2010, 17:50

In other words: They need proper balancing. Also, It would be interesting if they exploded on death, to add a risk to making them. Or their death animation was a giant explosion, sorta like Banelings. Maybe the Hellstorm shot? Or perhaps the Ground Shaker attack should be their attack/death.
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Re: Traps and Waterfalls

Post by JDW » 01 Aug 2010, 18:35

DTSX, I'm not at all sure if a mod can be made to showcase Suicidal cyborgs, but if you made one then, well, we would be able to tweak the idea into a better one (or maybe it's already perfected). If you don't know how to make a mod then maybe somebody else here with mod expertise could guide DTSX on if, and how, this can be made into a mod?

P.S.: I wanted to say Kamikaze, but wasn't sure if it could be offensive to some folks.
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Re: Traps and Waterfalls

Post by DTSX » 01 Aug 2010, 20:39

Ah Josh, I see what you mean there. I mean conceptually, I was thinking that the cyborgs would have an AOE death effect. As a result, if you so happened to bull-rush a mob of them in, then BOOM! Giant chain reaction. That would completely render them useless- except if you micromanaged each cyborg to come in from different directions and in multiple waves, then you'd get an extremely powerful shock force.

Kamikazi isn't offensive because it is what the Japanese called them during World War II. Saying Kamikazi would be the same thing as Suicide Bomber- both a politically correct, just one is made by the country who actually committed the deed.

As I stated before I have no idea on how to code and I have a Crapple, so I can't really go too far into the modding world. The important thing would be that EMP units would render the suicidal unit completely useless and destroy it immediately. I feel that Kamikazi cyborgs would be an early shock unit at best. Faced against Heavy Cannons and stuff like that would render these cyborgs useless. It'll be a fun tech to have after, let's say, mortars are introduced.

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Re: Traps and Waterfalls

Post by Rman Virgil » 01 Aug 2010, 20:57

.

Can be made as a mod on 1999 box. Most of the mod files to do it were created and released in Dec. '99 and then further evolved in 2002-2003. Most of those mod files (though not all) can be found incorporated into NTW (most of NTW is comprised of pre-source liberation work completed pre 2004 - sans the better balancing done back then) and, depending on how you want to implement (there is more than one legit way to do it), with some relatively minor changes you can do what you are talking about here.

BTW, when we first discussed suicide borgs (between May '99 - Sept '99 in Pumpkin's BBs, hundreds of posts on the topic) we chose to dub them with the more honored "Sepu-Ku" over the WW 2 taint of "Kamikaze". We also joined the discussion to "Decoys" and the clear distinction between both - conceptually & in how to implement.

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Re: Traps and Waterfalls

Post by DTSX » 01 Aug 2010, 21:19

* seppuku was a form of suicide that was meant to retain one's honor after a great dishonor was done to him. Kamikaze was a way of honoring the God emperor, but the reason why I want to both call it Kamikaze and be only a T1 unit is that during the whole Kamikaze attack phase in Japan, many generals were outspoken about the uselessness of it. That they should work maybe until the second or third time, but to continue that idiocy would be a waste of human lives in general.

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