Leg Propulsion - A new approach.
Leg Propulsion - A new approach.
As we all know, the concept of legged propulsion has been suggested, modded, and just done to death in Warzone 2100.
The problem being in most cases it's merely a novelty as it's hard to really find a good niche for legs. One asks "What major advantages could legs have to make them worth adding?"
But I've been thinking for quite a while, and I think I've got it.
First, the design. I've thought of the design, something that would work with Warzone's graphics and when animated would not look terrible, I would think. Most leg designs are mech-like or Star Wars walker-ish, and I think that's the wrong direction.
This, to me, is more practical, and it should be fairly easy to animate without looking too lame in Warzone. The spider/insect "splayed" posture should be excellent for what I have in mind. The drawing I made is minimalist, the legs would of course have more detail, but that would be their basic posture. Sadly I lack modeling or animation skills so this is the best I could do. I think perhaps heavy bodies should have 6 legs and/or thicker legs, and simply thicker legs for medium. Super heavy maybe eight or just 6 thick legs.
But most importantly, the attributes. Firstly, I'd say give it the lowest weight support, lower than even hover. Next, it should have the best all-terrain abilities, on par with cyborgs. It's body points should be lowest of all, lower than wheels, even. It should be more expensive than tracks, and have medium speed, perhaps in between half tracks and wheels, or maybe faster than that.
But here's the kicker...it will be able to scale cliffs.
By cliffs, I mean:
Yes, terrain unnavigable to any other units (not counting VTOLS, obviously). This will give them an extreme advantage. I do not think this is impossible to animate, because I see vehicles near cliff edges all the time at an angle, so allowing a vehicle to traverse cliffs should not be impossible (besides, we have the source code, so that should mean hard coding doesn't matter, correct?). I believe when scaling cliffs their speed should be cut in half, that should be fair, I would think.
This massive advantage would be balanced out by the aforementioned low armor, terrible weight support, and relatively high cost to manufacture. They should also have weakness to AP the same way wheeled and hover units do. Perhaps having literal weapon limits on legged units, as with VTOLs, would be a good idea, such as not allowing legged units to carry heavy artillery (like Archangels or Howitzers) or heavy cannons/gauss cannons.
I don't know if such requires creating a different set of weapons specifically for them. I know VTOLS have that, but I don't know if that's -only- so the VTOLs have their own versions of weapons with higher firepower, or if that's also required to limit. Ether way, I'll continue.
The strategic and tactical uses of legged propulsion would be quite interesting.
Light/medium bodied walker units with anti-tank rockets perched on cliff faces to take out tank formations.
Sensor walkers finding a high vantage point to get a good survey of the area, or to direct an artillery strike.
These could be a turtler's nightmare as well, as many turtlers take advantage of terrain (many maps have bases with a few or sometimes just one entry point).
I can also picture mobile AA walkers on top of cliffs...the uses are endless.
This is, I know, a very drastic proposal, but I think it's a unique idea in it's own right, and deserves some consideration.
The problem being in most cases it's merely a novelty as it's hard to really find a good niche for legs. One asks "What major advantages could legs have to make them worth adding?"
But I've been thinking for quite a while, and I think I've got it.
First, the design. I've thought of the design, something that would work with Warzone's graphics and when animated would not look terrible, I would think. Most leg designs are mech-like or Star Wars walker-ish, and I think that's the wrong direction.
This, to me, is more practical, and it should be fairly easy to animate without looking too lame in Warzone. The spider/insect "splayed" posture should be excellent for what I have in mind. The drawing I made is minimalist, the legs would of course have more detail, but that would be their basic posture. Sadly I lack modeling or animation skills so this is the best I could do. I think perhaps heavy bodies should have 6 legs and/or thicker legs, and simply thicker legs for medium. Super heavy maybe eight or just 6 thick legs.
But most importantly, the attributes. Firstly, I'd say give it the lowest weight support, lower than even hover. Next, it should have the best all-terrain abilities, on par with cyborgs. It's body points should be lowest of all, lower than wheels, even. It should be more expensive than tracks, and have medium speed, perhaps in between half tracks and wheels, or maybe faster than that.
But here's the kicker...it will be able to scale cliffs.
By cliffs, I mean:
Yes, terrain unnavigable to any other units (not counting VTOLS, obviously). This will give them an extreme advantage. I do not think this is impossible to animate, because I see vehicles near cliff edges all the time at an angle, so allowing a vehicle to traverse cliffs should not be impossible (besides, we have the source code, so that should mean hard coding doesn't matter, correct?). I believe when scaling cliffs their speed should be cut in half, that should be fair, I would think.
This massive advantage would be balanced out by the aforementioned low armor, terrible weight support, and relatively high cost to manufacture. They should also have weakness to AP the same way wheeled and hover units do. Perhaps having literal weapon limits on legged units, as with VTOLs, would be a good idea, such as not allowing legged units to carry heavy artillery (like Archangels or Howitzers) or heavy cannons/gauss cannons.
I don't know if such requires creating a different set of weapons specifically for them. I know VTOLS have that, but I don't know if that's -only- so the VTOLs have their own versions of weapons with higher firepower, or if that's also required to limit. Ether way, I'll continue.
The strategic and tactical uses of legged propulsion would be quite interesting.
Light/medium bodied walker units with anti-tank rockets perched on cliff faces to take out tank formations.
Sensor walkers finding a high vantage point to get a good survey of the area, or to direct an artillery strike.
These could be a turtler's nightmare as well, as many turtlers take advantage of terrain (many maps have bases with a few or sometimes just one entry point).
I can also picture mobile AA walkers on top of cliffs...the uses are endless.
This is, I know, a very drastic proposal, but I think it's a unique idea in it's own right, and deserves some consideration.
Last edited by Kacen on 05 Sep 2009, 23:54, edited 1 time in total.
Re: Leg Propulsion - A new approach.
Requesting a mod or admin move this thread to Ideas and Suggestions.
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Re: Leg Propulsion - A new approach.
Perhaps this would work for tech 4. Or as a mod only.
The point is, very good idea. Not much else for me to say... sense you already thought up all its uses.
The point is, very good idea. Not much else for me to say... sense you already thought up all its uses.
Main: Arithyce
Re: Leg Propulsion - A new approach.
I was thinking mid-late tech 3.Raem_Lylar wrote:Perhaps this would work for tech 4. Or as a mod only.
In fact if it were to be implemented into the campaign I think it should be one of three propulsions used by NEXUS, the others being hover and VTOL. He could make good use of walker propulsion, I would think, and it would add more variety to his units.
And I wasn't considering a mod here, I think this would add to the game as a whole.
Re: Leg Propulsion - A new approach.
Ooh! Total Annihilation spider tanks. Now we need stun lasers.
Re: Leg Propulsion - A new approach.
This is the best suggestion ever.
Re: Leg Propulsion - A new approach.
Is that joking sarcasm or are you serious?Zarel wrote:This is the best suggestion ever.
If the latter, I'm enthralled.
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Re: Leg Propulsion - A new approach.
Be able to scale cliffs has been my suggestion for cyborgs, which makes more sense for them and helps give them an actually place in the game design, IMO.
For legs, I would just make their uneven terrain speed faster than tracks, but make tracks stonger and/or faster on even terrain.
For legs, I would just make their uneven terrain speed faster than tracks, but make tracks stonger and/or faster on even terrain.
Re: Leg Propulsion - A new approach.
Cyborgs are too upright to scale cliffs, it'll look lame because they don't tilt with the terrain, and if they did it would also look lame.Deus Siddis wrote:Be able to scale cliffs has been my suggestion for cyborgs, which makes more sense for them and helps give them an actually place in the game design, IMO.
I actually have some ideas for making cyborgs relatively less useless I just haven't gotten around to posting a topic.
If that was the only advantage then legs would be relatively useless, that slight terrain advantage being severely negated by their weak armor and weight support. Few people would see it as a good cost-effective tradeoff.Deus Siddis wrote:For legs, I would just make their uneven terrain speed faster than tracks, but make tracks stonger and/or faster on even terrain.
If it wasn't for my suggested ability to scale walls they'd be useless, which I why I suggested it, and I don't think it would look good for upright cyborgs.
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Re: Leg Propulsion - A new approach.
I like this idea! You should check this: http://www.jacobi22.de/index.php?section=1900. Pictures and video files advertising the Jacobi 22 walking harvester. Yes folks, walking technology is all but science fiction. This gives a good impression of how a walking vehicle could look in WZ. The machine was actually modeled after a grasshopper.
Qui desiderat pacem bellum praeparat
Flavius Vegetius Renatus, De re militari
Flavius Vegetius Renatus, De re militari
Re: Leg Propulsion - A new approach.
Definitely not. I want to stay as far away from the typical sci-fi mech as possible. Also this design is impractical, too upright. And it looks out of place in Warzone.
This is much closer, the first example ("pre-insect walker") mainly, the second not so much.XANAX wrote: concept by HCN-Trooper
http://i165.photobucket.com/albums/u58/ ... walker.jpg
http://i165.photobucket.com/albums/u58/ ... Walker.jpg
Re: Leg Propulsion - A new approach.
well after I'm done with my
I'll be working on multi-legged mechsKacen wrote:typical sci-fi mech
Re: Leg Propulsion - A new approach.
Like I said, I'm aiming for a more insect/splayed leg design, as in my diagram, not upright. That would not be good at scaling cliffs.XANAX wrote:I'll be working on multi-legged mechs
Sadly I can't texture nor model...perhaps you could give my design a go? Flesh them out a bit but keep the shape/posture of the legs the same as my diagram. Maybe supports in between the legs and body. We can experiment with this.
Also anything more than 4 legs for light/medium bodies I'd think would be excessive.
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Re: Leg Propulsion - A new approach.
Such widespread legs are not very useful, imho. Not only do they make the machine bulky, but they are unnecessarily heavy and offer poor load support. In the given configuration, with the hips set into the sides of the vehicle, the vertical draft of the body will be carried by horizontal joints, what is never a good idea. If this was to be stable, the hips would either have to be under the body, like with spiders, this would preserve the widespread legs. Or the legs have to be less protruding, like the harvester mentioned above. This would make for a more insectoid look and give the vehicle better maneuverability in confined spaces. The third option would be a centipede design with hips under the body and legs spreading out, though not very far, by a reverse 90° knee. But this is a primitive design that only works because the centipede distributes its weight on up to 750 legs. Clearly not what we are going for.
A walking machine will always end up with resembling one arthropod or another, simply because they have, for millions of years, tried just about any possible solution for walking on exoskeleton legs and came to the functional designs. Albeit this being unavoidable, I second the view that it should not posses any design features that only exist to make it more "biomorph".
A walking machine will always end up with resembling one arthropod or another, simply because they have, for millions of years, tried just about any possible solution for walking on exoskeleton legs and came to the functional designs. Albeit this being unavoidable, I second the view that it should not posses any design features that only exist to make it more "biomorph".
Qui desiderat pacem bellum praeparat
Flavius Vegetius Renatus, De re militari
Flavius Vegetius Renatus, De re militari