New maps

Ideas and suggestions for how to improve the Warzone 2100 base game only. Ideas for mods go in Mapping/Modding instead. Read sticky posts first!
basich
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New maps

Post by basich » 06 Dec 2015, 13:40

hi, i'm new on the forum but not on the game, and i noticed that maps are a bit repetitive :zZz: , so i suggest new "random" maps so that they are never the same :idea: :idea: .
i hope in this improvmen in the next version of the game :roll: :roll:

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Tzeentch
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Re: New maps

Post by Tzeentch » 06 Dec 2015, 19:53

check out the map downloads section, have loads in there. They can be more unique. http://addons.wz2100.net/

A random map generator could be complex to make and who knows how balance would be handled. Like worms 4 mayhem...
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NoQ
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Re: New maps

Post by NoQ » 07 Dec 2015, 10:39

There's a map generator in FlaME. It's not very hard to port it, or a similar generator, into inside the game.

stiv
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Re: New maps

Post by stiv » 07 Dec 2015, 21:51

There is a random map generator called Diorama
http://warzone2100.org.uk/

Uses some AI techniques. Can take a long time to run, depending on the parameters you give it. Does amazingly well, IMHO.

I have a couple of generated maps laying around. Maybe I can upload them to Addons if they still work.
There's a map generator in FlaME. It's not very hard to port it, or a similar generator, into inside the game.
I will believe it when I see it.

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NoQ
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Re: New maps

Post by NoQ » 11 Dec 2015, 21:46

Sure sure, i don't pretend (: Just pointing out that some parts of the map are already auto-generated (seabed), and allowing to auto-generate more parts is something as easy as supporting a different map format. I don't say we'd see a map generator soon, i say that i can estimate the work to be done pretty accurately, and it's not as much work as many other long-wanted tasks down there, so it's a good thing to try. The gui part can be reduced to having a limited amount of presets, each implemented as simply another map in the list, this way no gui work would be really necessary. A javascript generator might be great, then engine changes are almost zero (should be faster than visual basic anyways(?)).

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montetank
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Re: New maps

Post by montetank » 13 Dec 2015, 01:08

It is possible to create about ten 2-11 player maps with the flame generator in a hour. With and without bases. The problems are the features. I can upload different packs if it is allowed. Not a big job.
In case the WZ-game ends in a draw , the game winner will be determined by penalty shoot-out.

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montetank
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Re: New maps

Post by montetank » 13 Dec 2015, 01:16

NoQ wrote:Sure sure, i don't pretend (: Just pointing out that some parts of the map are already auto-generated (seabed), and allowing to auto-generate more parts is something as easy as supporting a different map format. I don't say we'd see a map generator soon, i say that i can estimate the work to be done pretty accurately, and it's not as much work as many other long-wanted tasks down there, so it's a good thing to try. The gui part can be reduced to having a limited amount of presets, each implemented as simply another map in the list, this way no gui work would be really necessary. A javascript generator might be great, then engine changes are almost zero (should be faster than visual basic anyways(?)).
Sorry, just read your post. Yes-it is very easy. Especially symmetric 4 player maps. 1 vs 1 vs 1 vs 1 or 2 vs 2. Mirrored or rotated. Thats the reason i lost the interest to create new maps. Last week i was the first time online to see what happend in MP and i was shocked. Only large, boring NTW-maps were hosted. Before i create some stupid NTW map with about 2300² oils per player i will try to help santa claus :annoyed:
In case the WZ-game ends in a draw , the game winner will be determined by penalty shoot-out.

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Berg
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Re: New maps

Post by Berg » 13 Dec 2015, 03:35

Just my two cents worth I am very much sick of ntw maps ...map makers please make maps that use all the resources, features and terrain that’s why they are there to be used.

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vexed
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Re: New maps

Post by vexed » 13 Dec 2015, 06:25

Berg wrote:Just my two cents worth I am very much sick of ntw maps ...map makers please make maps that use all the resources, features and terrain that’s why they are there to be used.
So, you are saying the Grinch stole all the good maps, and left lumps of coal (aka NTW)? :lol2:
/facepalm ...Grinch stole Warzone🙈🙉🙊 contra principia negantem non est disputandum
Super busy, don't expect a timely reply back.

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NoQ
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Re: New maps

Post by NoQ » 13 Dec 2015, 12:12

montetank wrote:Sorry, just read your post. Yes-it is very easy. Especially symmetric 4 player maps. 1 vs 1 vs 1 vs 1 or 2 vs 2. Mirrored or rotated. Thats the reason i lost the interest to create new maps. Last week i was the first time online to see what happend in MP and i was shocked. Only large, boring NTW-maps were hosted. Before i create some stupid NTW map with about 2300² oils per player i will try to help santa claus :annoyed:
Yay, welcome to my world. It was just the opposite for me though - i *started* creating maps for that reason.

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maway
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Re: New maps

Post by maway » 05 Jan 2016, 11:24

hey, listen to me :ninja:
Random maps should have this options host could select before starting game:
Map size: v.small small normal big huge +(random)
Land type: Plain, some hills, mauntains+(random)
Land heigh: Plain, some hills/holes, huge hills/holes+(random)
Water: 0-90% (low, midle, huge)+(random)
Oil: 10-100% (low, midle, huge)+(random)
Oil positions should be balanced, some in base, some near it, some in midle, so i suggest option like:
OIL positions: Near, not far away, anywhere+(random)
Scavs!: low medium strong extra strong+(random)
Startin money?: 1000 4000 etc.+(random)
Location: Town, village, forest etc.. (decorations - trees, buildings etc.)+(random)
Players apears in corners, scavs middle, hils/water anywhere except player base (need space build)
Any1 know more options could be added to random map generating? :hmm:

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montetank
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Re: New maps

Post by montetank » 05 Jan 2016, 13:00

Isn`t possible. Life isn`t a request concert. We have about 1000 maps. You can find a map for every permutation in the addon-section or here in the forum. Nearly every permutation. What you wish is the number of 4 to the exponent 9 maps= 262144 different maps. Thats impossible. :roll:
In case the WZ-game ends in a draw , the game winner will be determined by penalty shoot-out.

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Re: New maps

Post by stiv » 05 Jan 2016, 21:09

The trick with random maps is not generating all 260,000+ possible versions and picking one you like, but rather generating one to match the given parameters.

Doing it that way requires about 1/4 millionth of the storage space and a whole lot less time. Plus randomness!

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Re: New maps

Post by Iluvalar » 13 Jan 2016, 21:26

I thought about it but it with a script, but it's more complex then it look. There is that 21 frontier tiles times oil distribution rule, that the map must follow. Nearly all maps distributed in the game follows it, nearly all map NoQ make secretly follow it instinctively...

You need several configurations of those frontiers to avoid making maps with a dominant strategy (turtling, rush...). Some configuration of frontier (T shaped, H shaped) might favor 1 side as well and effect the needed width of the frontiers you need to pay attention to those. Also, you need to make sure every players have their opponents at the same distance. Distance which is also imposed by the research/rush balance.

Once you designed the schematic path of your map to be fair for all the players, the remain of the process is much more artistic (and quite relaxing), which lead to the other point of my argument : designing map is fun and therefore, there is quite a good array of them to download already. Scripting a map generator to use one of those schematic to create map could be an option, the map he makes could look good, but still the same schematic would lead to the same kind of game play in all the maps and you'd still wonder if there is a way to improve the maps.

On the other hand, creating an algorithm that could generate new viable schematics would be very very challenging. You're much more likely to have some random maps with a random predetermined winner due to the lack of overwatch on the map design side.
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Tzeentch
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Re: New maps

Post by Tzeentch » 13 Jan 2016, 23:45

lol I like how montetank went to the effort of using power symbol "2300²" - people who play must enjoy those maps, even though they noob like. Same on other games they enjoy the simple straight lines, loads of money. People play the maps they like simple. Problem with random map gen as per Iluvalar is " You're much more likely to have some random maps with a random predetermined winner due to the lack of overwatch on the map design side." exactly true. Why not just manually create several great maps that people enjoy playing to reduce the NTW constant madness? Maybe something more cool or unique is required in the maps to excite them or something. Perhaps map descriptions and better representation before going into game. Also "Thats impossible. :roll:" - careful about what is and isn't possible ;) after all it was thought humans flying in skies was impossible...
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