Making Oil Locations on a Preview Optional

Ideas and suggestions for how to improve the Warzone 2100 base game only. Ideas for mods go in Mapping/Modding instead. Read sticky posts first!
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Merowingg
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Making Oil Locations on a Preview Optional

Post by Merowingg » 07 Feb 2013, 17:58

Hello Gentlemen :)

What if I tell you ;) It would be good to make visibility of oil locations on a map preview optional would be a good choice?

I think it is not necessarily very good to make all things so easy. I know it is good for the beginning players, but I believe some of them see the dots, ok to many, to fiew, ah here, and all rush here there and everywhere depending on where the oil is.

It somehow kill natural order of exploring a map. After the NASDA strike people come out of a/an bunker/s and know where is oil just like that? Scavengers sold the maps for high percentage oil?

Also a player may come back to the map to find out where the rest of oil is, and again, and again. If it is to hard for him, ok he will resign and go to for example a Train Simulator, but still we will make him think, or decide.

Here, we give him all on the plate, or even feed him already.

I think it should be optional for the creepy dots to be visible or not, before hosting the game.

Do we really want the game to be so easy?

Regards,

Mero, The oil camuflaging man.
“Beneath this mask there is more than flesh. Beneath this mask there is an idea, and ideas are bulletproof.” - V

"Mark my words boy, Mark them well, I have survived your predecessors and I will survive you." - Merovingian

Regards - Mero

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aubergine
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Re: Making Oil Locations on a Preview Optional

Post by aubergine » 07 Feb 2013, 19:34

Urg no.
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Re: Making Oil Locations on a Preview Optional

Post by Reg312 » 07 Feb 2013, 20:01

NO!!! :lol2:

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Shadow Wolf TJC
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Re: Making Oil Locations on a Preview Optional

Post by Shadow Wolf TJC » 07 Feb 2013, 20:11

I personally felt that perhaps it would be more fair if the locations of oils (though not necessarily whether or not enemy players have derricks built on top of them) were made visible throughout the entire match, even if under fog-of-war, so for Contingency, I tried to make the Oil Resources visible on map start. My reason for this is exactly that, that beginners would often have difficulty finding out where to look for oil. (I believe that most, if not all, rts games that were released within the last 6 or so years, including Command & Conquer 3: Tiberium Wars, StarCraft 2, and Supreme Commander 1 and 2, all shared this concern, so they made their respective resource points visible at map startup.)

Keep in mind that, while making oil visible in fog-of-war would make it easier for beginners to get into the game, it should not have any effect on the tactics that pro players would employ, since gameplay depth would not be affected. Besides, pro players nowadays would've ideally already memorized where all the oil on a map is.

Moreover, we could keep oil resources hidden in singleplayer.
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Re: Making Oil Locations on a Preview Optional

Post by Merowingg » 07 Feb 2013, 22:42

I dont get it.

Don't you think it is agains warzone itself to show this locations? Am I missing something here?

What is the purpose of showing where is the oil? If a map has 30 creepy dots in my base, and nowhere else, when I see it on a preview. I will not go around but stay in there, while in the other case I probably would.

When the barrels will be executed, or if. Then there is no need to move at all. We can deleate all maps except NTW, and rename our site. Brainless NTW 2100. Or maybe the lenght of the digit would be too hard then. NTW 1 would be better.

I would like someone to explain this to me.

:hmm:
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Re: Making Oil Locations on a Preview Optional

Post by Shadow Wolf TJC » 07 Feb 2013, 23:05

The main reason to support the idea of making oil resources visible in the fog-of-war on map startup is simply for the sake of beginner-friendliness, which I believe is important for attracting new players, and keeping their interest, for this great game.
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Re: Making Oil Locations on a Preview Optional

Post by aubergine » 07 Feb 2013, 23:20

But at same time, the reason people keep coming back to the game is because it's not a "cookie cutter RTS" - it's things like finding oil resources that add depth to the game and the whole creeping around in the dark thing separates WZ from the crowd.
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Re: Making Oil Locations on a Preview Optional

Post by Merowingg » 07 Feb 2013, 23:30

Shadow Wolf TJC I realise that. But then why not to make it optional?

I make a new map, I know where the oil is, I play against (sorry NoQ buddy for mentioning you again today) lets imagine against NoQ, and do believe me, when he sees the oil, I do not even have to play that game. I have no chances then. While in the other situation I would have at least verly little chances.

Aubergine finally a support in here. I really think creepy dots should be optional.
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"Mark my words boy, Mark them well, I have survived your predecessors and I will survive you." - Merovingian

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Re: Making Oil Locations on a Preview Optional

Post by Shadow Wolf TJC » 08 Feb 2013, 00:23

aubergine wrote:But at same time, the reason people keep coming back to the game is because it's not a "cookie cutter RTS" - it's things like finding oil resources that add depth to the game and the whole creeping around in the dark thing separates WZ from the crowd.
I have to ask what you believe are the MOST notable features that separate Warzone 2100 from all the other rts games out there.

Personally, I always thought that the ability to design units was AMONG those things that separated Warzone 2100 from the other rts games both then and now (with Earth 2150 being a notable exception). The 2nd and 3rd most notable things for me would be the artillery/sensor system, and Commanders. Whereas I believe that changing a more "trivial" feature, such as making oil resources visible, would probably have little impact, if any, on what makes Warzone 2100 Warzone 2100, I also believe that removing or changing a more "fundamental" feature such as said ability to design new units, or the removal of said sensors or commanders, would make Warzone 2100 unrecognizable from itself.

Besides, the same could be said about the Command & Conquer games up to and including Red Alert 2: Yuri's Revenge, where resources were kept hidden in the fog-of-war from the start.
Merowingg wrote:Shadow Wolf TJC I realise that. But then why not to make it optional?
We CAN certainly make it optional, though I'm just going to say that I wouldn't be surprised if most of the players used this new optional feature more often than not. :wink:
Last edited by Shadow Wolf TJC on 08 Feb 2013, 00:56, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Making Oil Locations on a Preview Optional

Post by Rommel » 08 Feb 2013, 00:33

I tend to agree with Shadow Wolf, as long as you can turn it off, what is the problem?
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Re: Making Oil Locations on a Preview Optional

Post by Iluvalar » 08 Feb 2013, 04:51

Merowingg, I believe the oil preview is a very good thing. Because your proposition make sens only if some player didn't played more than 3 time the map.

And we know that the host most likely played the map at least once, or worst created it. This mean the host will be advantaged by the knowledge of the map. I dont believe it's fair at all.
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Re: Making Oil Locations on a Preview Optional

Post by Merowingg » 08 Feb 2013, 20:42

That was also the thing that came across my mind while I was falling asleep.

Do we really have so many at any possibillity cheating people? No rules no more?

Maybe some limit a day of turning on and of? Three times and blank?
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Re: Making Oil Locations on a Preview Optional

Post by Iluvalar » 08 Feb 2013, 23:20

The best we could do (and I think it would be awesome). Would be to allow the map make to group the oil derrick and allow them to tell the game to delete a certain amount in that group each start. (or groups that have a certain % of chance to be there). You would see all possible position on the map preview but you wouldn't know if there is an oil there that time.
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Re: Making Oil Locations on a Preview Optional

Post by Merowingg » 08 Feb 2013, 23:39

Sounds fair :hmm: but then why not make on, off optional? it sounds like piece of cake in comparison to yours idea :lecture:

And I thought it is me who sometimes complex things :ninja:
“Beneath this mask there is more than flesh. Beneath this mask there is an idea, and ideas are bulletproof.” - V

"Mark my words boy, Mark them well, I have survived your predecessors and I will survive you." - Merovingian

Regards - Mero

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