Remove random oil drums?

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NoQ
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Re: Remove random oil drums?

Post by NoQ » 28 Dec 2012, 20:41

Well, simply placing them symmetrically will sort this issue out for symmetric team vs. team games ... and in FFA games this isn't much of an issue, heavily outweighted by diplomacy (?)

In any case, i guess first we need to remove the hard-coded oil drum placement (!) and allow the scripting system to manage them; then we can easily try out different options.

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Re: Remove random oil drums?

Post by aubergine » 29 Dec 2012, 00:02

In terms of value of oil drums, you could base that on the .born property (gameTime at which the object was created) -- a lower .born value would indicate more valuable drum, etc.
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Re: Remove random oil drums?

Post by Retributer » 18 Jan 2013, 18:01

I thought it would be great if you could set the number of random oil barrels before starting the game. This way you could remove them, or have many, many of them everywhere.
I don't know how they're currently generated, from what I noticed, when you pick one, another one appears, but how are they really generated ?

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Re: Remove random oil drums?

Post by vexed » 19 Jan 2013, 05:05

NoQ wrote: In any case, i guess first we need to remove the hard-coded oil drum placement (!) and allow the scripting system to manage them; then we can easily try out different options.
O_o
Placement is random.
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Re: Remove random oil drums?

Post by aubergine » 19 Jan 2013, 05:28

Would it be better if placement worked like this:

Every 2 minutes, if there are less than (20-maxPlayers) oil drums on the map, place 1 oil drum per player within 20 tiles of their startPosition, in a location that wheeled propulsion can reach from that position.

If one player is not picking up drums, they'd end up accumulating up to 20 drums around their base (if enemy not collecting them on their behalf heh) and drum placement would stop.

Or would it be better to limit the number of drums within range of start positions -- so at most there can be X drums within 20 tiles of a start position?
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Re: Remove random oil drums?

Post by Merowingg » 05 Feb 2013, 23:50

As we were brought up on finding those accidental tiny drums that sometimes saved our lives or changed history of our game while we played it. I am for the idea of some options for the drums. Like turn on, turn off, a lot, many, few, almost none.

It is something like addictional like real word stuff. You have so called luck (causality :3 ) you find out a barrel or two, which as a result of millions of causes and efects were left by the scavengers on your way.

It is like a last stand of unpredictibility in the game. The rest is players.

Also weather changes added to the game one day would give it some dynamics, a brief of fresh air which you are not sure if it comes or will blow too strong.
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Re: Remove random oil drums?

Post by Rommel » 06 Feb 2013, 01:31

There are a few maps that these random barrels are the difference between winning and losing, one that comes to mind is the Atom map, that little 4 player map where everyone is bunched in like a can of sardines. This map is a complete rush on mg, you basically build one res center and then res mg and you hardly ever even get to twin mg before the game is over - it is all about outputting the most units in a short amount of time - getting 3 random oil barrels menas you can output from 4 factories as opposed to 3... ie win or lose :)

imo taking those barrels out would make this type of game more fair, but even then if you take a truck out to search for these barrels you are slower to build (you don't make trucks on this map) so in some ways it might balance out... and now I am rambling lol...

My vote is that they should stay as long as they are distributed somewhat evenly over the map, ie so each player has the same amount within reach. Or thinking more, maybe random is better - ie this gives the incentive to take a risk and go exploring.. idk lol
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Re: Remove random oil drums?

Post by Terminator » 06 Feb 2013, 10:39

I think drums helpfull in early game cause 1 oil drum = 100 power, you may build 1-2 more units that in the begining very good, but in late long games 1-3 oil drums useless the prices are very high to make a difference.

I don't really remember but As far As I know drums respawns as somepick any other drum(if picked one so somewhere respwans one) & it goes through entire game. In early game someone may just rolling around & pick drums - that is bad.

My suggest is to make drum countable, I mean for example 20 on map - don't add new one if someone picks any.

Or suggest #2: make them spawn like res artifacts from enemy structures, but drums should appear from map features. Its countable, each map have thier number of features & it should be destoryed before it could be recovered (no truck "journies" :) ). May be could be done that drums "loots" with some random chance like loot in MMORPGs.

but if cut them off, I dont mind )
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Re: Remove random oil drums?

Post by Reg312 » 06 Feb 2013, 10:58

Oil drums break balance in low-oil games and bring too much randomness in game.
Random oil drums should be removed or nerfed. Random drums often placed at inaccesible places and they places not evenly.
I'm saying about only Multiplay and only classic warzone maps with 6-10 oils per player.
I see many people suggesting here many things... but most of them do not play low-oil games in Multiplayer.
only 1 reason to keep drums - they provoke player to explore more.

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Re: Remove random oil drums?

Post by Merowingg » 06 Feb 2013, 20:43

What does nerfed mean?

I think inaccesible is still good. It makes as you have staded our already beginning to be lazy, players wander and think. Maybe ten lazy players will not, but one will make this VTOL transport, or will use this hover to take a barrel or explore this looking average part.

Years and years ago I remember a game with NoQ where meanwhile manoeuvres he was taking barrels on a map with vtols patiently moving from a place to a place. And that was cool.

I would still provoke them, as our NTW lovers soon will not even move out from their bases but ask for long range missles. Anuthing that will move them, will be good I think. On a map of any kind.

If low oil so affected, then make it optional, or impossible fo below X amount of oils.

Also what was the archaic idea of those barels I wonder?
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Re: Remove random oil drums?

Post by Shadow Wolf TJC » 06 Feb 2013, 22:03

Merowingg wrote:What does nerfed mean?
I believe that it's a slang videogaming term meaning to reduce the impact or viability of something, usually for gameplay balance. The term is likely derived from how those Nerf-brand toy guns have a much smaller impact than, say, a BB gun, or even a paintball gun, and were thus considered safe for even young children to play with.
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Re: Remove random oil drums?

Post by Rommel » 07 Feb 2013, 03:34

Merowingg wrote: I would still provoke them, as our NTW lovers soon will not even move out from their bases but ask for long range missles. Anuthing that will move them, will be good I think.
I had to have a little chuckle when I read this.

But really NTW is not lazy, it is nothing about turtling as your comment would apply, in fact it is more intense - you are building an entire base in a few minutes (most games start with no base at all), researching with 5 res facilities, managing 15 trucks to build up defenses (not at your base, as far forward as you can get) while producing an army and then fighting huge battles all over the map ALL AT THE SAME TIME. It is intensive realtime strategy, with split second decisions that can define the outcome of the entire game. Oh the rush of seeing 1000 units duking it out, two massive armies feinting back and forth before smashing together like a set of iron gates! The sky full of rockets and arty, the moment of triumph when the enemy flank collapses and your units spill forth into their bases to take the final victory!

Low oil on the other hand is like taking a gentle walk in the park as opposed to being plunked at Ardennes with the German Blitzkrieg coming fullsteam at you. NTW games are more about skill than luck or memorizing where the oil is on a low oil map and then mozing around with trucks and sitting on your thumbs for half an hour... just saying...
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Re: Remove random oil drums?

Post by NoQ » 07 Feb 2013, 06:42

Low oil on the other hand is like taking a gentle walk in the park
I had to have a little chuckle when I read this.
memorizing where the oil is on a low oil map and then mozing around with trucks and sitting on your thumbs for half an hour...
just saying...
:doh: :doh: :doh: :doh: :doh: In five minutes it takes you to only build your base on high-oil you may already be dead on low-oil. If you think it's possible to be
sitting on your thumbs for half an hour
then you played with first-day noobs only.

Please. Don't play a mentor when you know absolutely nothing about the subject.

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Re: Remove random oil drums?

Post by Merowingg » 07 Feb 2013, 09:33

:doh: :doh: :doh: :doh: :doh:
Calm down man you will hurt yourself! ;)

Your posts and few others often remind me how little I know. And how fast I die on very very low oil :roll:
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Re: Remove random oil drums?

Post by Reg312 » 07 Feb 2013, 13:56

@NoQ Rommel's words also contain some truth.
Warzone have a problem and no one want to solve it - classic low-oil games are not friendly for beginners.
High-oil games definetely much more popular than low oil.
One of issues is 'oil memorizing'...

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