Wrecks

[Triproch]

The thread name pretty much explains this suggestion: Destroyed units leave wrecks.

Not only it would of make the game look nicer, but it would also block alive units unless destroyed, just like in other game I think you heard of not, Earth 2150.
If some of you played Earth 2150 then it will be easier for you to understand what do I mean, wrecks in that game block units and also take a few bullets before being destroyed, making a kind of improvised shield.

Would that be possible to implement in game, or that would rather break balance or whatever, because I saw you are pretty careful with adding new features?

[Jorzi]

It would indeed fundamentally alter game balance. I guess it also counts as a "make it more like supcom/ta" feature. (Not that I dislike supcom in any way)

I guess you could call it a game design choice...

[Avestron]

Perhaps have wrecks be set to a neutral team and allow trucks to slowly 'dismantle' (demolish) them for some small gain in cash? The easier way would be to have a wreck version of each body and add debris for effect.

[Triproch]

That's basically the main problem with WZ2100 these times, apparently the balance is so vulnerable even a small change could "break" it.
Well I think it would make the game look better, also I like the idea of wrecks being salvage-able for a small amount of power, maybe make a new recycler building?

[aubergine]

I like the idea of wrecks also, especially if they can be salvaged somehow to gain some cash. I like the idea of wrecks belonging to neutral faction so any player can salvage/destroy them. I guess they could be implemented as features belonging to player 21 (like oil barrels, artefacts and oil resources). Rather than new building, maybe just allow construction droids (trucks/engineers) to "recycle" them in much the same way they demolish buildings (so a wreck would actually be a structure that any team could demolish and get some $power back in the process).

But let's get the logjamming issues tamed first....

[Lord Apocalypse]

Please do a search next time... There are several threads on wrecks around here.

[Rman Virgil]

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True, wrecks have come up a number of times here since '06.

('Course there is the dilemna of necroing. Make a new thread or necro. Or as the Bard might have put it: "To necro or not to necro ? That is the question. Whether tis nobler to suffer the slings and arrows of outrageous forum fortunes or take up arms against a sea of snubs and by opposing end them...." And so forth.)

The most interesting to me was suggested 4 years ago: Scavs scavenging wrecks for their weap tech advancement. By implication done just some months ago in a mod.
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[aubergine]

I actually think wrecks would be pretty simple to implement with only minor code changes...

Code: Select all

// would either need to go in a multiplayer script env:
// discuss multiplayer script env here: http://forums.wz2100.net/viewtopic.php?f=35&t=10204

// or, alternatively, in rules.js and use the bind() function:
// learn about bind() here: https://warzone.atlassian.net/wiki/pages/viewpage.action?pageId=360539

function eventDestroyed(obj) {
   var wreck;
   if (obj.type == DROID) {
      wreck = addFeature(obj.x, obj.y, getWreckFor(obj));
      // addFeature() docs: https://warzone.atlassian.net/wiki/pages/viewpage.action?pageId=4817001
      setObjectCost(wreck, Math.ceil(obj.cost/2)); // new JS API function
   }
}

function getWreckFor(droid) {
   // some code here to determine id based on droid propulsion & body
   return wreckID;
}

So, when a droid is destroyed, a wreck feature is added. Obviously new models would be required for wrecks.

* wreck would gradually loose health, like part-built oil derricks do
* when health gets to 0, wreck disappears off map (to avoid map turning in to a wreck graveyard)

To allow trucks to demolish (recycle) wrecks, the following changes would be required:

* new "demolishable" property on feature objects -- so wrecks are demolishable, trees aren't
* alter DORDER_DEMOLISH & orderDroidObj() so any player can demolish demolishable objects belonging to player 99

As there is already some work in progress to convert from .txt format to .ini format stats, hopefully now would be a good opportunity to add the "demolishable" property? (or maybe calling the property "wreck" is more apt?)

* enumWrecks() -- returns list of all demolishable game objects owned by player 99

A player can then find and recycle wrecks as follows:

Code: Select all

var wrecks = enumWrecks();
var freeTrucks = getFreeTrucks(); // see nullbot's isTruckBusy() for example code

var wreck, truck;

while (wrecks.length && freeTrucks.length) {
  truck = freeTrucks.pop();
  wreck = wrecks.pop();
  orderDroidObj(truck, DORDER_DEMOLISH, wreck);
}

Obviously better logic would be added to that code - eg. find nearest truck to a wreck and send that, but check safeDest() first, etc.

[iap]

It sounds like a good idea. I think also that bullets and missiles and flamers can leave wrecks but bombs with explosions will destroy the wrecks.

[NoQ]

This technique also allows adding unrenewable resources (features demolishable by trucks for money), a capability long discussed. If only it was also allowed to change the rate at which demolishing takes place for features (or make it slow enough), we could also have garbage blocks (walls destroyable by trucks only), similar to mineral blocks often used in starcraft pro maps.

[Iluvalar]

That would completely change the range worthiness. That would make flamers "coagulate" in chokepoints and render them near useless. Same would happen for any range imbalance. (like laser vs mg). The smaller ranges army will quickly become useless.

I'm not opposed to this as an option, but I just note it would require a whole new set of stats.

[Avestron]

Perhaps allow tracked vehicles to pass over them, converting the tiles into compressed wrecks, traversable by half-tracks. Perhaps it would also be possible for vehicles to shove individual wrecks out of their way with some degree of success.

I also like the suggestion whereby wrecks have a value and depreciate. Reminds me of AoE.

[aubergine]

I think there's need to a limit on the total number of wrecks on the map at any given time as well. Later in the game, when players will have hundreds of units, wrecks could suddenly start flooding the map and would just generally get in the way of the action. One possibility would be to reduce the amount of time a wreck lasts for in relation to the number of units / structures on the map.

[Rman Virgil]

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Adding wrecks and attatching tangible value to them is an interesting new game play mechanic proposition.

But I do fall into the camp that thinks it could very well exacerbate the already hideous long-jamming PF / PW issues (which in tandem with the correlated lack of more granular command & control of combat group maneuver) is central to the games 14 year inability to succeed in gaining stature, for all its compelling uniqueness, in the RTS genre. Till those fundamental shortfalls are rechoned with, no new compelling feature, or set of grand enhancements, will catapult WZ out of its decade and a half of obscurity. But perhaps obscurity, at this point, is of no consequence as long as the WZ sandbox is diverting.
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[aubergine]

That's why wrecks would be a mod to start with, so that scripting could start, models could be tested, etc.

The log-jamming issue will need sorting out whatever happens.