Show "level" of enemy units (multiplayer)

[Reg312]

Common problem in WZ when one player defeats another player only because first player has better upgraded units.
Loser does not know why his army was too weak and in most cases thinks about cheating

level of units can be composed from armor, weapon, engine upgrades
Fox example level of light cannon viper htracks is 4.0 which includes:
3 cannon damage upgrades +1,5
4 composite alloys upgrades +2
one engine upgrade +0,1
one thermal armor upgrade +0,4

so in research tables should be added level modifier which will be added to units level when this research completed

Why its good
1) Game become easier to understand. Levels are used in a lot of games.
2) Resolve some cheating issues. Better determine cheaters.

[Shadow Wolf TJC]

Some rts games, like Command & Conquer 3: Tiberium Wars, Supreme Commander 2, and Starcraft 2, do modify unit appearances, special effects, and/or sounds to help players tell what kinds of upgrades other players have on their units.

If we do decide to implement these kinds of changes, then it may require quite a bit of work on the unit models, as well as some scripting to replace models (or parts of them, even decals) as the player researches new upgrades.

[Terminator]

I think showing i call it "unit tech level", would be good. Agree. Simple solution I would say not visual style, but system info in console, When make a right click on unit. Exmaple "Machinegun viper truck +1,5d; +0ka; +0,5ta; +1rof"

[Per]

That is a good point, but hard to fix, since there are soooo many upgrades in this game :/

[vexed]

I think showing i call it "unit tech level", would be good. Agree. Simple solution I would say not visual style, but system info in console, When make a right click on unit. Exmaple "Machinegun viper truck +1,5d; +0ka; +0,5ta; +1rof"

If someone was to do this, I rather have a research item associated with this, otherwise, why should anyone know what rank your unit was just by clicking on it ?

[Terminator]

why should anyone know what rank your unit was just by clicking on it ?

To see what tech level enemy had achieved. To insure that you're not cheater

[NoQ]

This might be a major spoiler in early-game, much like unit preview. Eg., if you see that the enemy is falling behind in mg upgrades, you'll start to expect cannons to come out soon, etc.

[Reg312]

This might be a major spoiler in early-game, much like unit preview. Eg., if you see that the enemy is falling behind in mg upgrades, you'll start to expect cannons to come out soon, etc.

I propose show only one level number without detalization, level 4 can mean good armor or good weapon, level give only part of information. you can expect cannons, or rockets or flamers.
and enemy should not see your units often, care of it

i can suggest another detail - level on enemy units should be updated only when each unit attack your units
For example, you see enemy have 20 tanks with level 2, but when enemy attacks you discover what current level of these units is 20!

i think we should care of noobs which should be involved in WZ better than about pro-players
and in final 10% of noobs can become good players and makes better competive games

[Per]

It is useful information for knowing why you lose fights, to demystify the game. It is available in Starcraft2 as well; not sure about other games.

[vexed]

It is useful information for knowing why you lose fights, to demystify the game. It is available in Starcraft2 as well; not sure about other games.

Of course it is useful info, so is knowing how much power your opponents have, and what they are currently researching, and where they are at... it don't mean that people need to be spoon fed, does it ?

Like I said, if we have 'threat indicators' that you research, I would be OK with this, but not always on as default.

[NoQ]

and in final 10% of noobs can become good players and makes better competive games

But if the game rules won't allow competitive games at all in order to favor noobs, i wouldn't like this either. Anyway, i have no opinion yet on this one, but since we moved against spoilers (removing tank preview), it seems reasonable to remove this spoiler as well. Also, when master comes out, cheating will hopefully decrease.

[Reg312]

Most players don't know how WZ works, why some units stronger and why they need do something
understanding of how WZ works is available only for the elect
There are much ways to win WZ games, showing levels makes harder to win by unexpected researching in early dueling game.

But if the game rules won't allow competitive games at all in order to favor noobs, i wouldn't like this either.

lesser count of playing people makes all games easier. Try play game with large community, you discover what you need much time and really good hands to win. This not depends of game.
Good WZ players is selection from 100-200 noobs. Imagine what would selection of 5000. You really think you become one from 5000 who win? so, if WZ becomes popular you see your competitive games!

[Terminator]

... but since we moved against spoilers (removing tank preview), it seems reasonable to remove this spoiler as well.

Well in master it isn't completely removed, It just doesn't show enemy units in realtime, Its shows last spotted enemy unit in visible area. I dont have anything against if you could also check units stats which you can see.

However I wouldn't cry either if this "level enemy" stuff wont be in warzone.

[Iluvalar]

...(removing tank preview)...

Are you sure it's a good idea ? Did you played enough in that to confirm ?

Here is my expectation : Unless we suppose perfect scouting. The delay between the moment someone make a move in the laboratory and the moment the opponent is aware of it increase. We also know that there is a point were adaptation become useless : When your research gain in a wrong direction become higher then the gain you could get by adaptation you are screwed and you lost the maximal amount possible.

This mean that the adaptation process necessarily become less useful to completely useless. Depending on how much more time it take to scout. And it is shared by more random imbalance due to different tactic chosen at start.

I guess.. you read that and you dont understand yet, so let's give a real exemple to see.
Player A chose to go for borgs and player B for cannons.

The player A take his time. Even if he could rush the cyborg-fact at 3:14 he chose to get it with the second lab around 4:00. The he build it (4:30) and produce his first borg (5:00). If player B have tank preview he will stop before Cannon-Damage03 [5:23]. Saving $112 for better use. Player A dont attack with 2 borgs, at that point he knows the player B have cannon only, and he know that a surprise attack would be of better effect. So he send another viper or 2. and build another batch of borgs (5:30) and another one (6:00). He it's played right, player B might not see what happen before Cannon-Damage04 [6:26] losing another $187 and all the power he used building tanks till that point will only worth half the efficiency. At that point he will reach the maximal lost possible and it will be better to keep cannons, than to try to adapt it anyway.

As a result, the preview blind player will lose 300$ more at best, or a whooping 600$ more power if the opponent know how to hide is factory and his plan right. Out of a starting power of 1300$. Making the whole game that much more determined by opening randomness...

It's just a feeling... I might be wrong there. But it need massive test before we could determine if it's a good thing or not.

[Boris]

good idea for skirmish game only..