Warzone 2100 Fork: Legacy

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Avestron
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Re: Warzone 2100 Fork: Legacy

Post by Avestron » 15 Nov 2012, 18:23

@ zydonk - Your assumptions are false. I am disappointed that you do not acknowledge the purpose of a private message and that you furthermore felt that the following quote needed to be dragged onto the forum proper.

(start quote)
Sent: 13 Nov 2012, 18:20
From: Avestron
To: zydonk
I never heard of the 31 crew.

Or their version. NTW (random guess)?
(end quote)

Incidentally I simply tossed NTW in there as a random guess - not due to any wrong doing on their development team's end. Furthermore I searched 31 crew on the forums - and failed to find anything definitive - before contacting yourself. I clearly erred in doing so.

@ bendib - thank you for the clarification. And apologies for derailing your topic momentarily. Unintentional.

@zydonk - we could continue arguing about this (in pm please) if you like but I feel that there is not much more to be said.
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Re: Warzone 2100 Fork: Legacy

Post by Originway » 15 Nov 2012, 21:11

bendib wrote:@Rman: We have no problem with mods and would be angry if map mod support were to become broken. I believe that mods are good for the game, but should never, ever, be integrated into the balance. We would like to create unit movement similar to 2.3.9, but since our current codebase plays very much like this already, it is not a priority.
I don't get it, who thinks mods aren't good for the game?
@zydonk: Please remember that one of The Warzone 2100 Legacy Project's goals are to create a more friendly community. This game is not founded on rage, it's founded on the ideas of salvation. Salvation for a game that seems doomed. Please be kind to wz2100.net members. If you are angry about the game being insane, remember that Legacy alpha one is out and works well. Development for alpha 2 is moving very quickly. Much has been done in regards to the UI already, and a minor tech tree fix where superborgs for laser, rail, and tank killer don't require Cyborg Dense Composite Alloys like they should. Many of our preliminary goals have already been met.
you state the game is not founded on rage, but you also state this project is doomed?
@Avestron: We are referring to the wz2100.net 3.1 developers, but not including *all* of them.
I thought this wasn't about rage, yet you have singled out *some* of them?

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Re: Warzone 2100 Fork: Legacy

Post by bendib » 16 Nov 2012, 07:10

Usually, Originway, I would spend the time to respond to you quite verbosely, but I will say this:

Rage is anger. I am not angry. I am disappointed. I am disappointed in the developers' efforts and their recent changes, and in some cases of their character itself. I wanted to save my game. I succeeded.

I have no problem with mods as long as they aren't merged into the game. I actively encourage map mods. And there are people who dislike mods.

Originway: I really don't want to hear from you. Your initial communication with me was negative, as is this last one. Please, just spare the world your rants that serve no other purpose.
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Re: Warzone 2100 Fork: Legacy

Post by bendib » 16 Nov 2012, 10:46

I'd like to add that the Alpha 1 netcode IS in fact more stable. I plan a rewrite of the quitting functions for alpha 2 as well.
Current known problems are also present in 3.x, though not as severe for Legacy due to stability enhancements in recent releases of Legacy.

http://universe2.us/wzlegacy/wiki/index ... e_Criteria

* Must contain functional leaving and joining in the netcode.
* Must contain functional leaving and joining in the netcode.
* Must contain functional leaving and joining in the netcode.

:annoyed:
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Re: Warzone 2100 Fork: Legacy

Post by zydonk » 16 Nov 2012, 13:34

bendib wrote:@Rman: We have no problem with mods and would be angry if map mod support were to become broken. I believe that mods are good for the game, but should never, ever, be integrated into the balance. We would like to create unit movement similar to 2.3.9, but since our current codebase plays very much like this already, it is not a priority.

@zydonk: Please remember that one of The Warzone 2100 Legacy Project's goals are to create a more friendly community. This game is not founded on rage, it's founded on the ideas of salvation. Salvation for a game that seems doomed. Please be kind to wz2100.net members. If you are angry about the game being insane, remember that Legacy alpha one is out and works well. Development for alpha 2 is moving very quickly. Much has been done in regards to the UI already, and a minor tech tree fix where superborgs for laser, rail, and tank killer don't require Cyborg Dense Composite Alloys like they should. Many of our preliminary goals have already been met.

@Avestron: We are referring to the wz2100.net 3.1 developers, but not including *all* of them.
Love the confidence....

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Re: Warzone 2100 Fork: Legacy

Post by zydonk » 16 Nov 2012, 13:38

Avestron wrote:
@zydonk - we could continue arguing about this (in pm please) if you like but I feel that there is not much more to be said.
How true...

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Re: Warzone 2100 Fork: Legacy

Post by Supermint » 16 Nov 2012, 14:59

Why do people have problems with people developing their own versions/mods in their own way. I have played both versions (WZ.net and Legacy) and I like them both. They both play great.
The creation of different directions allows us to see what would/could happen if we do something different.

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Re: Warzone 2100 Fork: Legacy

Post by Originway » 16 Nov 2012, 20:24

Supermint wrote:Why do people have problems with people developing their own versions/mods in their own way. I have played both versions (WZ.net and Legacy) and I like them both. They both play great.
The creation of different directions allows us to see what would/could happen if we do something different.
that is not the issue in itself
the problem here is they keep saying this project is "doomed" so they bad mouth this project at every chance they get

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Re: Warzone 2100 Fork: Legacy

Post by Jorzi » 16 Nov 2012, 23:28

@Originway: While I certainly disagree with bendib about this project being doomed, I do not take it personally like you seem to do. I don't really see a problem either. You don't keep a project together by "correcting" other people's opinions.

I actually see several benefits with this fork. People get to try out more alternatives and write any patches they want. Quick fixes can be applied, and if the code gets too messy, they can always go back to 3.1/master.
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-insert deep philosophical statement here-

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Re: Warzone 2100 Fork: Legacy

Post by Rman Virgil » 17 Nov 2012, 04:29

.

I brought up Mods. Let me explain why.

~ By definition, a mod is NOT merged into the core game.

~ Mods are universally acknowledged as the long-term life blood of a game that endures and grows in popularity.

~ How this universal acknowledment is manifest in reality differs. A game can be Mod friendly or not so much. The continuum of friendliness can span pure lip-service clear through to solid, consistent, reliable, transparent, practical support and real consideration in core development decisions.

~ 90%+ of WZ's greatest mods are incompatible with the current binary. They could be made compatible but nobody will make the effort and for good reasons. The current crop of compatible mods must be continuously attended for unexpected breakage. It's a whole lot more fun (than frustrating) to continue a mods evolutionary development than it is to have to continuously have to be fixing its unexpected breakage in order to continue with its actual dev. This falls under the heading of core stability and continuity.

There are different ways of achieving this core stability and continuity (moduralization of sub-systems being one of several) but you first have to have a high regard for modders and their mods such that it is tangibly manifest in a core decision making process that is inclusive and transparent.

It is at this juncture that mere lip-service acknowledgment of the importance of mods is exposed for what it is - a bane on a game's future, enduring relevance and growing community of end-users AND creators / devs...

It is for all these points that I raised the subject of mods.

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Re: Warzone 2100 Fork: Legacy

Post by Supermint » 17 Nov 2012, 15:14

Thankyou Rman Virgil. Mods allow us to create many things on a base. Like lego. We start with all the building blocks and a base. Then we create something with them. Due to our nature we will either dislike or like what has been created. No two people will have the exact same opinion. Because of this we can find things that don't work and stuff that does.

Warzone 2100 will never be doomed in my eyes. Ever since I had it on the Playstation back in the day I've loved it. The game will never be doomed as there really has never been such a good game to replace it. The game has a great campaign story to it. The simplicity of the game. The maps were great, the enemy AI at the time was epic. And the biggest thing was the shear amount of units you could create with the different parts. There is only 2 other games I know that allowed you to design you tanks and they both flopped due to poor AI limited design limits and poor map designs.

I cannot see there being a true successor to Warzone 2100 due to developers and publishers only want things they know will sell in huge numbers (Call of Duty, Halo, Forza etc) RTS games are not as big as they used to be.

However Warzone 2100 I believe can still be massively improved on what it is. The AI (Nexus) needs to be improved to be more aggressive but I like it as it is. The Nullbot AI can be a true adversary on Hard or above. I rarely use Semperfi as I'm not sure of its character. For the game to last along time we really need to start improving the graphics. I use the Art Revolution mod and I personally believe this should be integrated into to source once it is completed. We have enough was to kill each other in the game for now.

I myself am not a skilled modder but have dabbled in the past albeit not very succesfully (Chris Sawyers Locomotion, Transport Tycoon + Deluxe and Rollercoaster Tycoon. Plus a couple of few RTS's) I personally would like to start modding WZ2100.

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Re: Warzone 2100 Fork: Legacy

Post by Rman Virgil » 17 Nov 2012, 17:15

.

Agree down the line, Supermint. :3 Also good to hear from a fan recently joined, who goes all the way back to the PS1 version. :)

I am much encouraged by Legacy itself, its underpinning philosophy going forward and its inclusive values, both of which remind me of the spirit of WZ Creators themselves, the peeps of Pumpkin Studios. As special as WZ is in the annals of 3D RTS, so too were its creators as individuals sharing a singular vision in cyberspace and the extraordinary original community they fostered around the game that endured for many years after.

While I know I can never write code anymore, I feel now that I may again be inspired to map and mod, which I've deliberately let languish for some time. This languishing much akin the more recent commitment to abstention from most posting inclinations while still carefully mulling over everything that is posted across these bbs.

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Contrast
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Re: Warzone 2100 Fork: Legacy

Post by Delphinio » 18 Nov 2012, 09:01

Avestron wrote: I never heard of the 31 crew.
Or their version. NTW (random guess)?
Incidentally I simply tossed NTW in there as a random guess - not due to any wrong doing on their development team's end.
NTW (Nexus Total War) is developed by "Delphinio Entertainment" (me alone).
I had just a few people (BrickTop [Maps], Mertens [Models] & Pawianos [Model Ideas]) which helped my project.
I also implemented a lot of work, based by many other people.

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Re: Warzone 2100 Fork: Legacy

Post by bendib » 18 Nov 2012, 13:30

I am pleased to announce that Warzone 2100 Legacy's spectator mode now supports two major enhancements:

1. The ability to use the GAME_SPECMODE network signal coupled with the player ID to destroy all structures from the player of origin, removing one horrible hole in the game and reducing the network traffic that must be sent to enter spectator mode by several magnitudes.

2. Power and building holograms for all players become visible to spectators. It makes the spectating experience much more interesting, and much better for taking screenshots.

I'd also like to note that tomorrow, I begin work on large portions of new netcode for Legacy.

To test these features and other enhancements before release, you can:

Code: Select all

git clone http://github.com/Subsentient/wz2100legacy.git
You must be a UNIX/Linux user with all dependencies met to build it.

Keep in mind this version of Legacy is unstable and may be incompatible with other revisions of this melting pot version capable of joining your games.

Alpha 2 is on the way folks!
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Re: Warzone 2100 Fork: Legacy

Post by Shadow Wolf TJC » 18 Nov 2012, 23:53

This is great, though since my PC runs on Windows XP, I'll probably be unable to check this out for myself. Still, a nice working spectator mode is music to my ears, and I hope that the Warzone 2100 Resurrection Project would port that over as well. Forks may take separate paths, but there's always the option to cross-pollinate eachother, by incorporating certain elements from eachother to suit their goals. ;)
Creator of Warzone 2100: Contingency!
Founder of Wikizone 2100: http://wikizone2100.wikia.com/wiki/Wikizone_2100

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