Warzone 2100 Fork: Legacy

[aubergine]

How is the spectator mode implemented? Does it require that map maker places a sat uplink on their map for the players who will be spectators?

[wei2912]

How is the spectator mode implemented? Does it require that map maker places a sat uplink on their map for the players who will be spectators?

Nope, it is seamlessly (we hope) integrated into the game. It works on all maps. By executing the command spec me or pressing ctrl + insert your base will be destroyed and you will obtain God mode, which has the same effect as a sat uplink model.

[zydonk]

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I brought up Mods. Let me explain why.

~ By definition, a mod is NOT merged into the core game.

~ Mods are universally acknowledged as the long-term life blood of a game that endures and grows in popularity.

~ How this universal acknowledment is manifest in reality differs. A game can be Mod friendly or not so much. The continuum of friendliness can span pure lip-service clear through to solid, consistent, reliable, transparent, practical support and real consideration in core development decisions.

~ 90%+ of WZ's greatest mods are incompatible with the current binary. They could be made compatible but nobody will make the effort and for good reasons. The current crop of compatible mods must be continuously attended for unexpected breakage. It's a whole lot more fun (than frustrating) to continue a mods evolutionary development than it is to have to continuously have to be fixing its unexpected breakage in order to continue with its actual dev. This falls under the heading of core stability and continuity.

There are different ways of achieving this core stability and continuity (moduralization of sub-systems being one of several) but you first have to have a high regard for modders and their mods such that it is tangibly manifest in a core decision making process that is inclusive and transparent.

It is at this juncture that mere lip-service acknowledgment of the importance of mods is exposed for what it is - a bane on a game's future, enduring relevance and growing community of end-users AND creators / devs...

It is for all these points that I raised the subject of mods.

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We could start by setting up a working list of mods worth "continuing".

I suggest Aivolution (playing it with v2.22 at the moment - the purest heaven) and the one and only LoD (rotary flamers!).

If the list could be kept to a manageable size, then the task of keeping them up to date might not seem so daunting.

[Rman Virgil]

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@zydonk: Even just those 2 great mods would be daunting. Both would require a ground up re-creation using the current (& entirely different) resources and specs. Those with the skills and knowhow are otherwise engaged in maintaining their own unique creations.

RSgod dropped by a few months ago and said he was thinking about re-making LOD compliant with the current binary / data set. Even for him, the creator, its a huge undertaking.

Parts of Aivolution began coming foward in time with DyDo.... and continue to piecemeal. In it's entirety - thats another story. I especially loved its very first iterations use of the super transport - the ai's deployments were spellbinding and solved a lot of problems (including ai log-jamming).

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How is the spectator mode implemented? Does it require that map maker places a sat uplink on their map for the players who will be spectators?

Nope, it is seamlessly (we hope) integrated into the game. It works on all maps. By executing the command spec me or pressing ctrl + insert your base will be destroyed and you will obtain God mode, which has the same effect as a sat uplink model.

Sweet.

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[aubergine]

Regarding transports, it's going to be a little while longer before the JS API can properly utilise them - currently there are issues such as not knowing what units are onboard, how much cargo space is left, when a transport lands, etc. Per is currently kicking the grouping code in to shape and I believe he's tackling some of the remaining issues with transports, but it will be a while before gets released.

[Rman Virgil]

Regarding transports, it's going to be a little while longer before the JS API can properly utilise them - currently there are issues such as not knowing what units are onboard, how much cargo space is left, when a transport lands, etc. Per is currently kicking the grouping code in to shape and I believe he's tackling some of the remaining issues with transports, but it will be a while before gets released.

Thanks aubergine, that's good to hear. Lot's of exciting potential there. The only ocassion a WZ ai has scared the bejesus outta me is when I saw Aivolution's super transports coming over the horizon and starting to deploy right in my face. Actually raised the hairs on the nape of my neck.

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[Lord Apocalypse]

Sounds like a fun game... shame troman isn't around, or the rest of the bunch

[zydonk]

Even under 222, aiv is still good hard fun. The great thing is that that version can sustain the frenetic battles when the AIs gang up on you. (No doubt playing it on a sammy gamer helps.) But the sheer magic of the mod under the cd/110 was the ultimate experience. troman really grasped the potential of WZ. It was a real swingers' party!

[Rman Virgil]

Sounds like a fun game... shame troman isn't around, or the rest of the bunch

Indeed.

Even under 222, aiv is still good hard fun. The great thing is that that version can sustain the frenetic battles when the AIs gang up on you. (No doubt playing it on a sammy gamer helps.) But the sheer magic of the mod under the cd/110 was the ultimate experience. troman really grasped the potential of WZ. It was a real swingers' party!

+1

And, not commonly known...

Central to Troman's A.I. dev process included working for years with one of the great WZ MP players. This player freely shared all his winning insights and was dedicated to making the SP experience as compelling as MP at its most enjoyable and also evolving the overlap of these game modes. I see that basic working together dynamic in this project.

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[zydonk]

And, not commonly known...

Central to Troman's A.I. dev process included working for years with one of the great WZ MP players. This player freely shared all his winning insights and was dedicated to making the SP experience as compelling as MP at its most enjoyable and also evolving the overlap of these game modes. I see that basic working together dynamic in this project.

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Which explains a lot. You have to admire the dedication of those people to the game. It would be good to see more of that now. Be it 3.n or Legacy, can there not be some kind of cross-fertilisation among the various people involved in WZ development? Legacy is building on work done in the 3.n stream, and perhaps should be seen more as a corrective to unreal ambitions than some kind of negation of what 3.n achieved.

Truth is, from my perspective, Legacy has a lot of work to do yet, and this could be done - to the benefit of the WZ project as a whole - if they got more support from the entire pool of skill and talent within the project.

[wei2912]

And, not commonly known...

Central to Troman's A.I. dev process included working for years with one of the great WZ MP players. This player freely shared all his winning insights and was dedicated to making the SP experience as compelling as MP at its most enjoyable and also evolving the overlap of these game modes. I see that basic working together dynamic in this project.

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Which explains a lot. You have to admire the dedication of those people to the game. It would be good to see more of that now. Be it 3.n or Legacy, can there not be some kind of cross-fertilisation among the various people involved in WZ development? Legacy is building on work done in the 3.n stream, and perhaps should be seen more as a corrective to unreal ambitions than some kind of negation of what 3.n achieved.

Truth is, from my perspective, Legacy has a lot of work to do yet, and this could be done - to the benefit of the WZ project as a whole - if they got more support from the entire pool of skill and talent within the project.

True, it's lonely with me and Subsentient only and I haven't been doing much. I believe Subsentient handed some patches to the WZ team.

Another announcement: We are currently giving the netcode a good rewrite to optimize it. Subsentient should push his changes soon once he gets the new netcode finished.

[Rman Virgil]

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Another announcement: We are currently giving the netcode a good rewrite to optimize it. Subsentient should push his changes soon once he gets the new netcode finished.

That's good to hear. Anything that improves the MP experience is central to WZ's longevity.

If I remember correctly, someone here mentioned UI widgets work going forward. That's another area of great promise.

Another, I believe, is the migration from wz script to the JS API. What's the Legacy position on this ?

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[bendib]

We intend to support both.

[aubergine]

I'm slowly chipping away at a set of unit tests for the JS API which might be of use for testing the Legacy JS API implementation, hopefully making an initial release in Q1 2013. I started it mainly as a way to keep track of what changes from one release of WZ to the next so I can update the JS API docs wiki, but once released it might be useful for finding differences between the official version and the Legacy fork? If interested, keep an eye on my github "EggPlant" project as that's where I'll be releasing it to.

[Rman Virgil]

We intend to support both.

Sweet.
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