Who are the scavengers ?

[Iluvalar]

Here is a little poll. I was wondering while thinking about my next mod...

Are scavengers
A) Contemporary to T1
B) Predecessor of T1
C) Successor of T1 (why not ?) They could be more advanced technologically, but decide to recycle to save materials. While the project might represent the "old way", straight descendent of the pre-apocalyptic generation using old way of construction just like their was no apocalypse at all...

We are talking about (T0) in another post, but is it really accurate ?

[aubergine]

Scavs should be T0 IMHO: viewtopic.php?f=30&t=9536#p105312

[Rman Virgil]

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Anything is possibly if you can create a compelling fiction backstory with a scientifically believable premise and follow it through with an internally consistent logic.

With such a framework Scavs can factor in Illuvalar's A, B & C.....as well as in aubergine's scheme.

But you need a powerful narrative hook to pull it off. Such a one exists.

The Scav gene pool would be the hook.


WZ Creators looked to movies like the "Terminator" and "Road Warrior" series for inspiration.

I expanded my sources of inspiration to include the science behind "Punctuated Equilibria" & "Epigenetics"... as well such movies (both based on terrific novels) "The Postman" and "The Road"..... to name but a couple.

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[Iluvalar]

I said something in another post...

WW III => Apocalypse => scavenger1 => scavenger 2 => scav 3 => ???
Nasda => retaliation => retaliation 2 => The project (T1) => Project 2 (T2)
Modern3 => Futur 1 => F2 => F3


I'll need further help to fix the other factions and also to find every sets some caracteristic weapons...

If we follow that time line, scavengers would be both T0 and contemporary to T1 and T2 (which look rationnal to me )

[Rman Virgil]

I said something in another post...

WW III => Apocalypse => scavenger1 => scavenger 2 => scav 3 => ???
Nasda => retaliation => retaliation 2 => The project (T1) => Project 2 (T2)
Modern3 => Futur 1 => F2 => F3


I'll need further help to fix the other factions and also to find every sets some caracteristic weapons...

If we follow that time line, scavengers would be both T0 and contemporary to T1 and T2 (which look rationnal to me )

Very interesting. Ambitious. That's a lot of Scav viability to account for - thinking T1-T2. What kind of relationship between Scavs and the Project..? Have you considered different Scav Tribes with specializations..?

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[Iluvalar]

As far as I know, the project carefully avoided big scavengers cities powered with junkyards, having a command centre and a research centre until now. The project just attacked the few inhabitants that were in their path. If you ask me, yeah ! Some warlords are very upset by the project making quick apparition far in the back-countries and killing innocent people around.

Just like players in T1 rarely research mg, cannons and rockets together. Scav 1 players will have just enough choice so there will be a pleasant amount of "specialization" possible. Also, take note that my project have no hard rules that prevent players to mix the sets.

[Fussel]

Hi,

if welcome i would throw in some thoughts i have about the Scavangers.
As far as i know (playing campain is long time ago) the world was destroyed by nuclear weapons and the nuclear winter was the consequence. As in the intro described the surviving humans fight even for a single package of dog-food meanwhile your party barrikades in a bunker.
From this point on and reflecting on humans behavior people who has higher and specialized skills but that are totally useless for surviving under extreme conditions are no longer welcome and because of collapsing society also no longer protected.
Skills like being strong, though, egoistic and clever are these which will be necessary for surviving, using or building technology will be totally missing because most technology is that complicated that most people are not able to build or to use and using recources is also no longer possible because the knowledge and organisation therefor is no longer present.
As far as i imagine the first societies build up from civilians will have structures close to dictatorships, based on fighting abilities for conquer and defend all remains necessary in there opinion. After fighting out a balance between different partys slowly the interests in technology will rise because simply fighting abilities has build the balance and there first will be resources for people with skills in future use and a phase will start in which, based on the remaining technologie and knowledge, are building up greater societies.
So the question: Who are the scavengers? Is a question for the time on which they are regarded.
I think there are scenarios possible that are far more in future because the fallout effected the whole world and the parties introduced in the game are just very very small ones and not able to create state-like structures, more like the city-states we still have in our real world so there is a lot of space for scavanger-societies to grow.
At the time the project begins i think the scavangers are far far away even from a t0 level. They could have only been able using found utensils, even producing ammunition should not been possible for them. So the most realistic picture i can imagine are small settlements close to destroyed cities and greater villages. Presence of them in more rustical landscapes should not been able because also the ökological system should have been that damaged that hunting,fishing and agriculture cant be life-basis for greater groups of people.

[Giani]

big scavengers cities

Big cities "alive" in an apocalypse?

[Iluvalar]

Of course. Why not ?
Even with a rate of death of 100:1 there would still be 3 million people just in U.S. .
Assuming they find a good food production technique like robotic farm . They would naturally try to gather together where there is a good electric network still usable. they would have tons of materials to scavenge everywhere. But they would not become stupid or forget their education in such a small amount of time.

Why the project would and the other military organisation would be the only one to enjoy robotic manufacturing ?

[Fussel]

If you want to be as accurate as possible maybe you are interested in articles from Robock who works for decades making the results of nuclear warfare visible using the newest computerbased simulations which are that accurate that can reproduce global climate changing of documented catastrophs very precise.
Since the development of warzone 2100 and today computers have done large improvement and more precise calculated data of virtual simulated events are available.
Here i can show you a example of two graphs copied from one of his articles:
(Tg means Teragramm=50/150 x 10^12g ~100000000tons)

Unbenannt.png

[JOURNAL OF GEOPHYSICAL RESEARCH, VOL. 112, D13107, doi:10.1029/2006JD008235, 2007]

[Conor]

At what point do they change from being Scavangers into a Faction?

At some point, every faction, except Nexus perhaps, would have been scavenging for tech (in fact, technically you do it for the entire campaign?). If they reached the point of advancement of being self sufficient with food, and have manufacturing capability, then they wouldn't really be scavengers anymore?

[aubergine]

I guess in a faction there is also a more defined purpose or mission statement. For example The Project have a mission statement (although it's not clear how they arrived at it) as follows:

"The Project is dedicated to recovering Pre-Collapse technologies and rebuilding the world."

Whereas scavengers are really focussed on a more basic mission: "Survive" - in other words, they're still near the bottom of Maslow's hierarchy of needs: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Maslow's_h ... y_of_needs



I'd go so far as to say that to be a faction, they must at least reach the "Esteem" level.

[Conor]

An interesting piece

Back on-topic. If you reached self sufficiency, would you not then expand your horizons abit?
Certainly you would concentrate on securing your food stockpiles at first, but a sustainable source of food would then allow you to shift your objectives to something more. It seems like sustaining a city in and of itself should be enough to raise someone over the level of scavenger?

But then it would vary from group to group too maybe? You could have one city that acts as a trading hub of sorts, which would qualify, but then another equally sized/equipped one that operates only on impulse conquest, which would still be counted as scavenger?

[Iluvalar]

My plan right now is to give to the "scavenger 2" set a new building called the "robotic junkyard" that would produce power for the scavengers.

The story line would simply be that the project in cam-1,2,3 never met a scavenger colony of that level.