AI is cheating beyond reasonable

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meeso
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AI is cheating beyond reasonable

Post by meeso » 05 Dec 2010, 12:59

been playing against AI with the last version (2.3.6) a lot. It happens that as i manage to control all power resources on the map, and even destroy power generators and oil derricks within AI's base, my own power progress extremely slowly, even slower than AI, and eventually i fail to invade AI's base because of super lancer or flamer cyborgs who destroy everything that comes inside the base!! It becomes impossible to win as i have no power to mass up a good force, even cyborgs, to infiltrate AI's base (although i have all power resources on the map!!). Shortly after that, AI suddenly come out with a fast loading heavy cannon on heavy body, and game is over!!!

Do you experience anything like this too ?!!

Darn it's so crazy :)

thanks

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LZ compromised
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Re: AI is cheating beyond reasonable

Post by LZ compromised » 05 Dec 2010, 14:04

I will not touch upon the possibility of a bug/"feature" where the AI's pulling oil out of thin air as opposed to derricks.

From the strategy point of view, what you described is easily countered with an amount of lancer/bomb VTOLs. But I'm assuming you played in a no-VTOL mode, so you have the option of making pepperpots/ripples/ground shakers and siege the AI's base while only having to worry about its assault groups.
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Mats
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Re: AI is cheating beyond reasonable

Post by Mats » 05 Dec 2010, 14:52

AI cyborgs really suffer to howitzers. ;)

Heavy AI cannons coming late game, should be easily countered by scourge rockets. Even on hardest, the AI is not really difficult 1 vs 1.
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NoQ
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Re: AI is cheating beyond reasonable

Post by NoQ » 05 Dec 2010, 15:40

Just wanted to say it again: AI is *very* weak. Even at max. level slider, where it cheats like hell.
If a 1vs1 duel against an max.AI on a normal map lasts more that 15 minutes, you're doing it wrong.

Cannons are countered with rockets. Cyborgs are wiped out by machineguns.

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Re: AI is cheating beyond reasonable

Post by Rman Virgil » 05 Dec 2010, 16:47

.
meeso wrote:
been playing against AI with the last version (2.3.6) a lot. It happens that as i manage to control all power resources on the map, and even destroy power generators and oil derricks within AI's base, my own power progress extremely slowly, even slower than AI...........

Do you experience anything like this too ?!!

Darn it's so crazy :)

thanks
Yes, that is thoroughly crazy. Tacs & strats do not speak to it.

You running any mods ? Tell us the map... post a save game.

BTW... you can communicate with and set-up how DyDo A.I. plays. Check it out here:

http://www.dydo-ai.kilu.de/?p=552

- Regards, Rman, :hmm:
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Outlaw325
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Re: AI is cheating beyond reasonable

Post by Outlaw325 » 05 Dec 2010, 17:08

the standard AI is very well known for being a cheating swine. Chief among them is what is basically the 'more power' cheat, that gives it an extra 1000 power instantly. I've watched it happen many times. Also, if you want your power up faster, make a point of researching the power generator tech
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Re: AI is cheating beyond reasonable

Post by Per » 05 Dec 2010, 17:27

If you move the difficulty slider down to the lowest possible setting before turning the AI off, then the AI will not cheat at all. How fun it will be, is another question...

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Re: AI is cheating beyond reasonable

Post by NoQ » 05 Dec 2010, 19:10

Per wrote:then the AI will not cheat at all
Not exactly. The AI will still keep some strange capabilities like building tanks without a command center, etc.

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Iluvalar
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Re: AI is cheating beyond reasonable

Post by Iluvalar » 05 Dec 2010, 19:44

I'll say like Outlaw325, you probably neglect too much the research. And as I said in the armour topic, you probably like real short and sweet rushy strategies.
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Re: AI is cheating beyond reasonable

Post by Rman Virgil » 05 Dec 2010, 20:14

.
meeso wrote:
been playing against AI with the last version (2.3.6) a lot. It happens that as i manage to control all power resources on the map, and even destroy power generators and oil derricks within AI's base, my own power progress extremely slowly, even slower than AI...........

Do you experience anything like this too ?!!

Darn it's so crazy :)

thanks
As I read that sentence yet again, after all these posts since my 1st comment, even if meeso is doing everything wrong with his research and build order, there still seems to be something else fracked-up here.

- RV :shock:
.

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meeso
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Re: AI is cheating beyond reasonable

Post by meeso » 05 Dec 2010, 20:54

Hello everyone and thanks for your responses and advices, but the situation is, more accurately, like this:

All of what i described above happens within the first 15-20 minutes of the game if not less, and i do upgrade power generators and aim at following power technologies research as i go. I literally lock AI within its base and acquire all power resources on the map. As soon as i do that, especially preventing AI from going out of its base by building defenses and amassing units around the entrance to its base, my previously growing power supply begins to drop rapidly, and AI acquires not just extra power supply, but also expands on research immediately. For me i'm still rather far from vtol, ripples, and howitzers. And even if i have them i cannot build them because of lack of power supply. AI comes next (not so late in the game!) with heavy cannon on tiger body firing rapidly!! The other problem as i described it earlier is in the dozen cyborgs which damage my attacking units greatly, destroying them one after the other while i have no power to produce more, even medium cannon on cobra body, or simply heavy gunned cyborgs!

The problem is not just in massive cheating regardless of the realistic situation of the battle, but also in disadvantaging the human player condition by depraving him from a reasonable power supply that enables him to achieve victory. There is of course no problem when AI cheats by empowering itself, but there is a problem when it does so by disadvantaging the human player at the same time, and to such excessive degree.

The maps i played were: TwinnyHilly V and Diorama-ror, and probably other maps too. But in these two i was specifically testing this problem. AI difficulty was set either medium or slightly above medium! No mods were used.

The only way to play the game, though i still have to recheck this, is by allowing AI to move more freely, which at least will lead to human player's power supply to progress naturally and reasonably.

This might be a bug or something that is deliberately programmed .. i don't know; but i will try to produce a save game file for demonstration, then maybe issue a ticket.

Rman thanks for the DyDo link. :idea:

Best

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Re: AI is cheating beyond reasonable

Post by Iluvalar » 05 Dec 2010, 22:23

You might be right, at that difficulty level, the AI is researching 2.5x faster then us. The only thing that save our ass is the fact that the AI is too stupid to take advantage of it. It prefer to build that 3rd factory (with all is module) and build sub-efficient troops and send it one after the other against us.

But if you "manually" prevent it to build stupid stuff and spend his power at stupid place... It might just spend it more on research. Get those power upgrade fast as hell and then become even deadlier in research until one of is new super tank manage to escape the blocade.

Is that possible for you ?
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Outlaw325
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Re: AI is cheating beyond reasonable

Post by Outlaw325 » 05 Dec 2010, 23:48

hang on, if you have every single resource that ain't in his base, how are you running out of power? I've found it hard to dry up my power when it's got just 8 derricks supplying it, let along a whole map's worth O.o you sure you got enough power generators?

Also, if the AI is being THAT much of a pain by using tanks, try primarily going down the Rocket line of researches (if it's using Cyborgs too, make absolutely sure you get the Assault Gun ASAP!). That and you said you were using Cobra bodies, right? Don't. The Cobra will not help you much. Get to at least the Python as quickly as you can, and you should be better off.
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Re: AI is cheating beyond reasonable

Post by Dalton » 06 Dec 2010, 00:46

Outlaw325 wrote:I've found it hard to dry up my power when it's got just 8 derricks supplying it
O_o you need to macro a lot more, unless you have over 30 oil derricks you should not have any problem spending your money

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Outlaw325
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Re: AI is cheating beyond reasonable

Post by Outlaw325 » 06 Dec 2010, 00:48

Dalton wrote:
Outlaw325 wrote:I've found it hard to dry up my power when it's got just 8 derricks supplying it
O_o you need to macro a lot more, unless you have over 30 oil derricks you should not have any problem spending your money
I play low oil games, and tend to have high level power gens pretty soon, that's how. That and I'm pretty careful with my units.
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