v 2.3.6 .. this is super armor!!!

[meeso]

i've been testing with the new version, with armor calculation back on, and i'm afraid the game is becoming both boring and unrealistic, and very much unplayable on low oil maps, or low power configurations (yes .. some people like that!!!)

I observed an AI cobra medium cannon tank passing through a line of rocket towers and mortar pits which were firing on the tank at the same time, it took TOO LONG to destroy the tank, and the tank brought down 3 towers and 1 mortar before it was destroyed!! (AI was just slightly above medium difficulty!)

i like armor calculation and hate the mg rushing and the whole idea of massing up forces, but generally speaking armor calculation must be done in a balanced and well calculated way in order to make the various ways of playing the game possible. i don't know if anyone else had similar experiences or observations, but armor in 2.3.6 for me is super armor, even though it applies to my own units as well! It undermines what defensive structures can achieve in a game played strategically rather than in the arcade-style and spirit, imo.

thanks

[NoQ]

Welcome to the desert of reality (:
That's how people were playing before 2.3.2 ...

No, this is no super armor. It's rather normal actually. We are still to understand the "new" balance though.

[Per]

The fact that we went through several releases in which people were playing the game and enjoying themselves, while units had no armour, is quite interesting. Of course there were complaints about balancing, but I think we had as many complaints about balancing before armour disappeared. So I think we have to do some thinking about how to balance this properly to maximize the fun

[NoQ]

Don't listen to them Per, i like the current balance better
W000t

Well, of course, there are multiple ways of balancing the game, and all of them, when completed, make the game fun. And armor must be back simply as an extra means of balancing.

Still, right now i think that current armor calculations, having passed through a rather long development history, *are*

done in a balanced and well calculated way in order to make the various ways of playing the game possible

[DRAAK]

Very good. It Happened)

[meeso]

Hi all

i have played the pre 2.3.2 versions myself and have even described in the research strategy tips which i wrote for beginners that:

A heavy cannon *Mantis* turret, and let alone *Tiger* or *Vengeance* or *Dragon*, will take all the fire and penetrate through all the defensive towers, bunkers and hardpoints, destroying them one by one, and striking down any mobile unite that comes in its way, and finally get back to its repair facility without being destroyed yet.

And "hao", fyi, i prefer 2.3.6 to any other post 2.3.2 version and certainly like armor calculation. I am only bringing the matter here to be discussed rather than to come to a quick and decisive conclusion.

one thing i've observed after playing without armor calculation is that strength of armor needs to be much more "gradual" across the different bodies, and also, that it be lessened all in all. The importance of this, imo, is to allow defensive structures to function more effectively, especially during the initial phases of the game, and to force players to think of more than just the race of heavy body heavy cannon, which now represents the focus of the new balance, as it was before 2.3.2. instead of heading from mg all the way up to twin assault guns on medium bodies, now it's a question of who has got more heavy cannons on heavy bodies (or maybe tank killer rockets as well). So there is still not so much of a difference in the mentality of racing over units in number and nature. This is of course an important factor of the game, but i don't think it shall be the only factor.

Under 2.3.2 and what followed (low power games), i liked so much the fact that i was able to think very strategically sometimes, dominating entire areas of the map, which did no themselves contain power resources but led to them, by building mortars in strategic locations. And i liked the vulnerability of both enemy and my own units and the necessity to provide cover for them while they're attacking, or build defensive stations across the map to which they can retreat, etc. And i liked it most when opponent *had to* discover what was i doing and what was my strategy (you know this thinking of what the other player might be doing), and when he succeeded in destroying my mortar pits with a couple of vtol raids, forcing me to go back and rebuild mortars along with AA. etc. All that dialog and correspondence to the events of the battle, rather than just racing to build more and more units with heavier and heavier bodies.

So to sum up, i think that when units are still vulnerable, it forces game play to go in a different direction, and enables defensive thinking and strategy to play a role and be a further option in game play. What do you think?

Best

[Mats]

Heavy tanks, especially tracked heavy body cannons, will DESTROY towers and hardpoints, but, they can be stopped. If you opponent keeps sending this, you can counter. They are very slow tanks and anti-tank missiles from the air and hover vehicles can do damage to them while they are on the way. Later in game, scourge really badly outrange them too.

[Iluvalar]

The fact that we went through several releases in which people were playing the game and enjoying themselves, while units had no armour, is quite interesting. Of course there were complaints about balancing, but I think we had as many complaints about balancing before armour disappeared. So I think we have to do some thinking about how to balance this properly to maximize the fun

Just give a new choice at the beginning of the game !
Just like power level...

[meeso]

Just give a new choice at the beginning of the game !
Just like power level...

That could be a very good idea!!! three different levels of armor strength ..
1. no armor
2. medium armor
3. heavy armor
(and i would choose the medium)!!!

brilliant!! Iluvalar

[macuser]

Yes actually that seems like a rational answer to the problem..... now for the devs (who don't have as much time as either we or them for that matter would like) to decide.

[TVR]

Do you guys actually think that playing with no armour mechanic is fun?

By any chance, are you the same ones that posted 'MG is overpowered', 'Remove the Twin Assault Gun@!' or 'i hate ripple rockets !!'?

I miss Zarel....

[Rman Virgil]

..............

I miss Zarel....

Indeed, I too. His gifts are prodigal, protean & manifest wherever you look closely. He also communicated lucidly, with deep insight, wit, courage & a fair-minded perspective. Out of the silence I can only speculate so I won't. Eventually, it just may come-out in the "wash", as the saying goes. For the moment, it's the giraffe behind the buffet at a cocktail party - to couch it in a colorful metaphor.

- RV
.

[chobibo]

Try using anti-tank weapons, like lancers, I usually use them to protect important routes, I bundle it with MG's just in case the enemy tries an infantry offensive. Rockets are only effective on light class chassis, tanks on cobra chassis and half-tracks propulsion can sustain barrages from 3 rocket pod(not upgraded) towers.

[meeso]

Do you guys actually think that playing with no armour mechanic is fun?

Some people obviously do .. what .. you've been in exile since 2.3.2 or what?!! lol

By any chance, are you the same ones that posted 'MG is overpowered', 'Remove the Twin Assault Gun@!' or 'i hate ripple rockets !!'?

You sound like a policeman!!! woooooo TVR is gonna get us!!

[TVR]

There has been sufficient conspiracy on the forums as of late, for my claim that Zarel was dealt with in the same manner as Mr. JFK to be plausible....

... Some people obviously do .. what .. you've been in exile since 2.3.2 or what?!! lol ...

I have been working on some source-code modifications to the 3.0 branch in the trunk, mostly improvements to the damage mechanic, which includes removing the 1/3 damage minimum damage modifier, which would make the tanks invulnerable to a 7.62 mm or 12.7 mm machine gun.

... You sound like a policeman!!! woooooo TVR is gonna get us!! ...

You have the right to remain silent, anything you type can and will be used against you.