100+ patrolling VTOLs vs. heavily defended enemy base :)

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aubergine
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Re: 100+ patrolling VTOLs vs. heavily defended enemy base :)

Post by aubergine » 12 Oct 2010, 12:05

<didn't have time to write a short letter, so wrote a long one -- Mark Twain>

@ScoBe - I think a mixture of approaches is required.

I've found that micromanaging is a great way to take out specific targets, such as AA defences first, then any other key targets (eg. troublesome radars, oil rigs, etc).

But once those things are dealt with, having the VTOLs go on patrol/circle and attack anything they want allows you to focus elsewhere. You're effectively divesting your management to them, letting them choose what to do (and they do a pretty good job of it).

I think of it as being a bit like Sauron's eye in Lord of the Rings. Only it's your eye. You can only really be focussing and micromanaging one specific area of the map at a time, but for best effect you need to let the minions take over some of the action because you can't focus (micromanage) the entire map all the time.

So you go in and queue specific attack/build commands and then you can focus on the next area of the map. But when you take your focus to another area of the map, the enemy will quickly start to recover in the previous area. Some self-targeting VTOLs would prevent them from doing that, despite the fact that Sauron's eye is now gazing elsewhere.

On large maps with many players and many things to think about, this is very compelling. Remember that it's not just you doing it, the enemy (especially human ones) can do the same.

I think this would lead to AA droids getting used much more, including AA equipped VTOLs. Currently, due to the bugs and heavy focus one one tactic or the other (micromanage or divest) the VTOL aspect of the game is primarily ground vs. air. Does anyone really use AA equipped VTOLs? The patrolling "attack whatever you want" element, with the bugs ironed out, will add more compelling dynamics to the gameplay IMHO.
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Re: 100+ patrolling VTOLs vs. heavily defended enemy base :)

Post by alto1234 » 12 Oct 2010, 14:20

aubergine wrote:...bow down to the alpha male
:D
aubergine wrote:Not that important in a game community, you can just move on, but at work, social and relationship level it is a disaster waiting to happen.
i am what i am here
aubergine wrote:By prefixing your assertions with "I found that doing <x> works better because of <y>..." you're still making the same assertion but in a manner that is evidently sharing insight and new tactics - a suggestion rather than an order, something that's far more effective as it helps avoid the whole SAR issue and lets people get to the AH part quicker.
it's also far less pertinent to follow wishy-washy advice
aubergine wrote:EDIT: And should they prove your assertion wrong, you don't look like a complete tit - because you were only making a suggestion. And the fact that you can therefore admit that they were right without losing face, makes you more personable to them and further strengthens their trust in you whilst at the same time allowing you to gain even greater insight in to the subject with which to help people in the future. It's a positive feedback loop, rather than a negative one.
in cases where i am 100% correct i take the liberty of supporting my positions
aubergine wrote:The result is that you get the message across to a much wider audience and instead of people seeing you as arrogant or abrasive, they see you as a mentor because from their perspective you've helped them without shocking them or making them angry.
i don't intend to get my advice across to a wide audience, i intend to communicate my advice to a select few. the manner in which i deliver my accurate and informative advice is intended to be elitist and exclusive. but some still see me as a mentor in this game, despite my "abrasive" perspective... hmm...

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Re: 100+ patrolling VTOLs vs. heavily defended enemy base :)

Post by aubergine » 12 Oct 2010, 14:37

I could see through your abrasive approach to the advice you were trying to deliver only because I used to deliver advice in the same way, before I gained an understanding of the adverse side effects.
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Re: 100+ patrolling VTOLs vs. heavily defended enemy base :)

Post by Airassault » 14 Oct 2010, 06:52

i never use any other payloads on VTOLs other than incendiary bombs, especially plasmite, works against everything WELL! buildings, vehicles, except other VTOL's, but I will get em once they land lol, and I always win like that, the body I use: Retribution with Plasmite, still has about 626 speed, so its fast and deadly! my fave, the dragon body with VTOL is very slow and easily shot down, and takes forever to build

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Re: 100+ patrolling VTOLs vs. heavily defended enemy base :)

Post by ScoBe » 14 Oct 2010, 12:59

Since it's a FFA on alto1234 :wink: , I'll have my turn:

It's not your opinions and analysis of the game that anyone's disputing. The merit of those will be shown in a game, and I don't have any illusions of being able to beat you (yet!). There is no problem with directness, and I wouldn't even say that you need to say instead (as aubergine suggests) "I've found X". You can say what you originally did, that against other people, aub's originally posted tactic is unlikely to win, since it takes too much time and money to prepare it, and any reasonable human opponent will probably wipe you off the map while you're researching all that body tech and building your VTOL force. This means that even if had enough of an upper hand that you could hold off such an attack long enough to build such a force, it'd be a slow road to glory (even if it is pretty sweet glory).

So alto1234, be direct. No problems. If you're right. People will listen. I'll listen.

But there is no reason to get personal. Insults breed bad blood, and lead to the kind of vocal or silent contempt aubergine speaks of. When did you get personal? Here:
This really isn't that effective of a tactic, albeit all the flashy pictures you felt obliged to post. you're using the best body in the game with probably the best alloys. it would take at least 40 minutes to produce that force. you're also using 100 vtols, which means you only have around 35-45 ground units to handle anything else, so if your opponent has 135 pulse laser hovers you are dead no matter what you do.

the best strategy for clearing buildings is directly micromanaging your vtols with the mouse.
Sure the rest could be reworded, to take off the critical edge, but it's the bit about the "flashy pictures he felt obliged to post" that drags the tone of the forum discussion down. Of course he didn't feel 'obliged' to post anything. That's just what we do here. The forum is for conversations about the game, and experiments like this make for interesting conversation.

In this case it's brought up the issue of bugs in the VTOL Patrol and Circle routines, and brought our attention that it would make for some interesting additional tactics if those bugs were ironed out.
Last edited by ScoBe on 15 Oct 2010, 16:57, edited 1 time in total.

alto1234
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Re: 100+ patrolling VTOLs vs. heavily defended enemy base :)

Post by alto1234 » 14 Oct 2010, 17:48

ScoBe wrote:But there is no reason to get personal. Insults breed bad blood
i didn't ask you for your opinion on my behavior, thank you very much

regarding the posting of interesting discoveries, there's merit to it if they're not completely bloated strategies such as this.. :stare:

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