In the Fine Guide: Both a prerequisite and an upgrade?

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ScoBe
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In the Fine Guide: Both a prerequisite and an upgrade?

Post by ScoBe » 08 Oct 2010, 11:22

OK, I really don't get this. Take any of the more advanced turrets in the guide. For example, the Assult Gun http://guide.wz2100.net/w/assaultgun. Now note that the ROF 'upgrades' --as well as some of the damage upgrades---are also prerequisites for the Assult Gun. What gives? How can something be a prereq and an upgrade to the same weapon? And more to the point how should I read the 'un-upgraded' damage values at the top of the page, are those somehow what the damage numbers would be without the ROF upgrades---a condition that can't exist? Or are they ---as I suspect--- what the base weapon gives you when you first get it.

Should the prerequisite-upgrades be removed from the turret pages?

3drts
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Re: In the Fine Guide: Both a prerequisite and an upgrade?

Post by 3drts » 08 Oct 2010, 13:58

The upgrades are applied to all weapons of the same class.

ie, the machinegun, twin machine gun, heavy machine gun, assault gun, and twin assault gun, all use the same upgrades.
The ROF upgrades are automatically applied to the base values of the weapon, thus *normally* your assault guns start with their ROF already fully upgraded.
*HOWEVER* by destroying base structures, artifacts may be found, these artifacts can allow you to research weapons and technology, even if you don't have the pre-reqs, so you can jump ahead in the tech tree somewhat.
Say you focus on rockets, your enemy focused on cannons, you take out one enemy base, you may find artifacts allowing you to build HPV cannons and start on some rather high level cannon upgrades, without going through the lower ones.

So the condition *can* exist, but is generally unlikely.
Also, custom maps could give you units or structures that start with the assault gun, even though you don't have the tech to produce more of them.

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Zarel
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Re: In the Fine Guide: Both a prerequisite and an upgrade?

Post by Zarel » 08 Oct 2010, 15:29

ScoBe wrote:OK, I really don't get this. Take any of the more advanced turrets in the guide. For example, the Assult Gun http://guide.wz2100.net/w/assaultgun. Now note that the ROF 'upgrades' --as well as some of the damage upgrades---are also prerequisites for the Assult Gun. What gives? How can something be a prereq and an upgrade to the same weapon? And more to the point how should I read the 'un-upgraded' damage values at the top of the page, are those somehow what the damage numbers would be without the ROF upgrades---a condition that can't exist? Or are they ---as I suspect--- what the base weapon gives you when you first get it.
No, they're the damage numbers without the ROF upgrades. They won't actually be those values in practice.

It is possible to get a weapon without researching its prerequisite one of five ways:

1. Collecting artifacts from killing enemies
2. Using weapons scripted to appear on the map (Ariza starts you off with a few Tank Killers and Whirlwinds, for instance)
3. Using MG Tower or MG Bunker (which have an HMG mount well before you can research HMG)
4. Using a mod that changes up the research tree
5. The give all cheat code
ScoBe wrote:Should the prerequisite-upgrades be removed from the turret pages?
No, because that would be confusing, and would make it harder to compare different weapons.

For instance, take the Light Cannon and the Medium Cannon. The Guide prints their damage values as 35 and 60, respectively. But MC actually does at least 75 damage by the time you research it. But by that time, the LC does 43 damage, so writing "LC: 35, MC: 75" makes the MC look more than twice as strong as the LC, when it isn't.

In addition, what if you got to Heat Cannon Shells Mk2 before you started using MC? Your MC would do 90 damage. The damage any weapon does needs to be modified by the upgrades;

ScoBe
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Re: In the Fine Guide: Both a prerequisite and an upgrade?

Post by ScoBe » 12 Oct 2010, 06:37

Thanks for that clear explanation, both of you. I see the logic of the current format.

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