Is it possible to kick players during the game?

Other talk that doesn't fit elsewhere.
This is for General Discussion, not General chat.
crycrytax
Rookie
Rookie
Posts: 17
Joined: 27 Aug 2010, 00:26

Is it possible to kick players during the game?

Post by crycrytax » 02 Sep 2010, 03:18

If you can not than it would be really helful if there was such an option. This would eliminate cheaters (partially) and people with high pings. Without this option (unless it does exist) the game can become very frustrating for others because a player is lagging/cheating during the game. What do you guys think?
My game handle is McCallister. I play mostly from 7pm -10pm Eastern Time. My WZ server is called "Good Times Server"

User avatar
JDW
Regular
Regular
Posts: 1669
Joined: 18 May 2010, 20:44

Re: Is it possible to kick players during the game?

Post by JDW » 02 Sep 2010, 03:44

It's not possible to kick in-game AFAIK, and most of the time those accusations on someone being a cheater are false positives. I remember a recent game where myself and another had accused an opponent of cheating. We were quite surprised to see Artillery and VTOLs very early in the game and we decided to quit. Later it was made known to us that the accused player just followed the tech tree perfectly.

So lesson from all that was, more often than not, it's just good players playing really well. And giving an option for in-game kicking, although easily doable, would be really bad in this case.

And as for the issue of players having bad pings, you should really make more use of the traffic light colors which indicate ping status before the game begins. Kicking players in-game for their bad pings would be just ruining the game for everyone. Unbalanced teams would be just one reason. It would be more frustrating than the current problem of synch issues, imho.
Last edited by JDW on 02 Sep 2010, 04:50, edited 1 time in total.
"Speak when you are angry and you will make the best speech you will ever regret."
-- Ambrose Bierce

crycrytax
Rookie
Rookie
Posts: 17
Joined: 27 Aug 2010, 00:26

Re: Is it possible to kick players during the game?

Post by crycrytax » 02 Sep 2010, 03:52

oh the traffic light colors?

Can you elaborate on that. Like what colors are available, which ones indicate what etc
My game handle is McCallister. I play mostly from 7pm -10pm Eastern Time. My WZ server is called "Good Times Server"

User avatar
JDW
Regular
Regular
Posts: 1669
Joined: 18 May 2010, 20:44

Re: Is it possible to kick players during the game?

Post by JDW » 02 Sep 2010, 03:58

BTW, there is a better way of avoiding cheaters, which is arranging games with others on the #warzone2100-games IRC channel. Many folks there already have a list of known cheaters that they will share with you.

And also talking to someone on the project staff when you suspect a cheater would be helpful.
"Speak when you are angry and you will make the best speech you will ever regret."
-- Ambrose Bierce

User avatar
JDW
Regular
Regular
Posts: 1669
Joined: 18 May 2010, 20:44

Re: Is it possible to kick players during the game?

Post by JDW » 02 Sep 2010, 04:12

crycrytax wrote:oh the traffic light colors?

Can you elaborate on that. Like what colors are available, which ones indicate what etc
In the attachment, you will notice small spheres with numbers in them. They will be either Red (Bad ping), or Orange(Medium ping), or Green(Good ping).

I myself have a vague idea on all the technical thresholds, and I'm clueless about those numbers in the spheres. Let's wait and see if someone else can clear this up for us. :lol2:
Attachments
pic.png
pic.png (4.26 KiB) Viewed 6228 times
"Speak when you are angry and you will make the best speech you will ever regret."
-- Ambrose Bierce

crycrytax
Rookie
Rookie
Posts: 17
Joined: 27 Aug 2010, 00:26

Re: Is it possible to kick players during the game?

Post by crycrytax » 02 Sep 2010, 04:17

Oh I see now, I never noticed the difference between the color of the spheres, this is very helpful
My game handle is McCallister. I play mostly from 7pm -10pm Eastern Time. My WZ server is called "Good Times Server"

User avatar
JDW
Regular
Regular
Posts: 1669
Joined: 18 May 2010, 20:44

Re: Is it possible to kick players during the game?

Post by JDW » 02 Sep 2010, 04:26

crycrytax wrote:Oh I see now, I never noticed the difference between the color of the spheres, this is very helpful
I'm glad you found it useful :)


~sigh~ I wish there was just one page in the guide with all the details explained that I could point you towards. But, alas, there isn't. O, woe is me... :(
"Speak when you are angry and you will make the best speech you will ever regret."
-- Ambrose Bierce

User avatar
Buginator
Professional
Professional
Posts: 3285
Joined: 04 Nov 2007, 02:20

Re: Is it possible to kick players during the game?

Post by Buginator » 02 Sep 2010, 05:30

This is all changing. :ninja:
Yes, there will be a in-game kick. (hold down left+right mouse over 'channel icon' on the scoreboard)
The traffic lights are still going to be there, as well as numeric values, however, those values are highly misleading, however, they are 'good enough' for the most part. :stressed:
and it ends here.

User avatar
JDW
Regular
Regular
Posts: 1669
Joined: 18 May 2010, 20:44

Re: Is it possible to kick players during the game?

Post by JDW » 02 Sep 2010, 11:30

Buginator wrote:The traffic lights are still going to be there, as well as numeric values, however, those values are highly misleading
BTW, What are those numbers in the lights supposed to indicate?
"Speak when you are angry and you will make the best speech you will ever regret."
-- Ambrose Bierce

3drts
Trained
Trained
Posts: 379
Joined: 01 Aug 2007, 03:50

Re: Is it possible to kick players during the game?

Post by 3drts » 02 Sep 2010, 13:08

Re: laggers
Most of the time if the lag is that bad, you can convince them to quit. Laggers generally are not out to ruin other people's games.

Re: Cheaters
Currently, the only thing you can do is quit and deny them the satisfaction of a win.
The problem is, as joshdrunkwar said, they are mostly false positives.

There is one person in particular: WAKEMAN (yes, his name is all capitals) who has a ridiculous "false positive threshold".
I would not play with him, as anytime he is losing, he concludes cheating.

He only plays high oil maps as far as I can tell, and if you rush him with a mass of tanks and cyborgs, he concludes the only way you could build an army that big, is by cheating.
If you bombard his base with artillery, the fire coming "from nowhere" seems like cheating to him, and he quits.

Then there is the player Fenrir, he accused me of cheating because I built VTOLs, when the previous game he had left them on, and been told and shown he left them on. In the lobby to that game, I asked him to keep them on....
Luckily, he was not a quitter, just a trash talker, and kept accusing me of cheating the whole game.
I'm not sure if he meant "hacker cheating" or "breaking the agreed upon rules" cheating.
Its also worth noting he didn't declare "NO VTOLS" in the game title, he didn't tell me no vtols (he did ask why I wanted them kept on though, but did not respond to me reasons), his ally claimed he told everyone in the start, or at least responded no vtols when asked.... but he was asked on team chat, and the response, while public, was simply "OFF"
I wasn't going to ask "what is off" as that would reveal one party was communicating privately, while the other wasnt, and I like to listen in to other team's discussions if possible.
Besides, he had far too many stars, to not know about structure limits, and he had been well informed/reminded about what they were set to, in the previous game when ppl started complaining that he lied and VTOLs were in fact ON, and then I asked him to keep them on.

So he calls me a cheater for using VTOLs, when initially I was sort of teasing him that he left them on again with only several lancer armed vtols to show him they were on, and give him a chance to prepare
All he does is spout off crap about being a cheater and it being a no vtol game.
so I humor him and dont attack with VTOLs, and limit myself to only cyborg transports, and build a howitzer firebase on the left plateau of NTW.

Then I commence fire on his ripple batteries, and he again spouts off about me being a cheater, building in an "unreachable" area, and how he has no way to retaliate/ its impossible to retaliate.
He goes on about how he can't retaliate and its cheating.
Meanwhile I think to myself.. has this guy ever heard of CB?
I tell him its no unreachable, and he can retaliate, but if he's such a noob he doesn't know how, I'm not going to tell him
As he takes ground shaker fire, he continues to build ripples in lines/high density formations, and no CB,

He eventually figures out CB and vtol transports, but its too late then.
He is still spouting off about me being a cheater, long after I stopped using vtols.
He insists that my howitzers there were unfair. I say it doesn't matter, since all his attacks on my front line defenses failed anyway. He claims I couldn't have built my howitzers in range of his ripples anyway.
So I build ground shakers behind my line, on the lower plain, and continue firing, and point out the range is 11,000 vs 10,000 not a big deal.
It helped my hellstorms when I got them, but those didn't come until my GS up there had reduced his ripples to rubble anyway.
He continues complaining about my cheating, and saying he doesn't play with cheaters, and he won't play with me again.
So I decide... f*** it, and pump out a bunch of scorpion HEAP bombers, and lay waste to his base, and his allies base (he'd rather complain than build AA), his vtol transports took to the other plateau (the right one) and started setting up a base, with hurricane AA, which I quickly eliminated as well.

The only thing I can credit him with is he is not a quitter.
He sure would rather complain, swear, and call people cheaters than actually effectively fight back, set structure limits, or make an effort to inform people of his "rules" at the start of the game.

User avatar
JDW
Regular
Regular
Posts: 1669
Joined: 18 May 2010, 20:44

Re: Is it possible to kick players during the game?

Post by JDW » 02 Sep 2010, 13:27

Buginator wrote:Yes, there will be a in-game kick. (hold down left+right mouse over 'channel icon' on the scoreboard)
I kind of have a bad feeling about this though. Just hoping that it won't be misused.
"Speak when you are angry and you will make the best speech you will ever regret."
-- Ambrose Bierce

Jorzi
Regular
Regular
Posts: 2053
Joined: 11 Apr 2010, 00:14

Re: Is it possible to kick players during the game?

Post by Jorzi » 02 Sep 2010, 14:01

Aww.. I have actually played against cheaters though, it's interesting to see how long you can hold up against someone with infinite money.

I remember a game when we actually outlasted these guys. It was a 3v3 match and we took control of about 70% of the oil on the map, and in the early game only one of the players appeared to be a threat. We believe that he shared his techs and infinite oil to the other players who appeared to be just innocent noobs. We realized that they were cheating when they started spamming out expensive, badly designed units from all factories, while building row upon row of ripple batteries. At first we made some strikes with plasmite flamer hovers to take them out, but then they started building lots of plasma cannons along with the ripples. When we begun airstriking them they started to build huge rows of aa turrets, too.

Still, by utilizing their weaknesses as long as we could, we managed to keep most of the oil so we had enough money to fight back. We decided to take out the most clueless player so we overran and completely destroyed his base while the others were busy building huge defences. What I did't know was that he either escaped with one truck or they gave him one, so he built 5 factories in the other guy's base and spammed out a huge heap of twin assault gun tanks, and while I was building new oil derricks and some defences in his base he suddenly came back, destroyed everything and built missile fortresses everywhere, so we were back at our old positions again. However, now everyone had researched so far as to have laser satellites and visibility everywhere, so we continuously blasted away their laser satellites with our own. The battle was so long-winded that they started to lose their hope of ever defeating us (we had battled for almost 3 hours if not more). One of the other players made a final attempt of estabilishing a forward base using huge amounts of heavy laser wyvern tracks and some truck units, but as soon as he went out of range of the AA laser batteries and started building something, he was instantly destroyed by our heavy plasmite bomb vtol:s, so he quit, and soon, the other guys followed his example.
ImageImage
-insert deep philosophical statement here-

User avatar
JDW
Regular
Regular
Posts: 1669
Joined: 18 May 2010, 20:44

Re: Is it possible to kick players during the game?

Post by JDW » 02 Sep 2010, 14:22

@Jorzi : Impressive :)
"Speak when you are angry and you will make the best speech you will ever regret."
-- Ambrose Bierce

KukY
Regular
Regular
Posts: 1859
Joined: 20 Mar 2009, 21:56

Re: Is it possible to kick players during the game?

Post by KukY » 02 Sep 2010, 14:26

j0shdrunk0nwar wrote:@Jorzi : Impressive :)
Agreed. Much more interesting then usual host quit.

3drts
Trained
Trained
Posts: 379
Joined: 01 Aug 2007, 03:50

Re: Is it possible to kick players during the game?

Post by 3drts » 02 Sep 2010, 16:41

I have highly suspected some people of cheating, but some cheating is less obvious.

There are sync errors/issues, that sometimes result in units blowing up seemingly without being hit....

and then there is watching as your entire tank column stretching from one end to the other of NTW just explodes.
One game, it was a 2v2, I mass units in an empty base on their side, and come in from the side behind their defenses/ crossing the T with their defenses, hmgs against twin mg tanks, all is going well for the first fw seconds.... then it starts to pause for a while, and all my units blow up... but I still have more units streaming, across the whole map... some more pauses, and all those blow up too, my allies as well, even units at my base that I never ordered forward, or couldn't possibly have made it to his base in the time of the pause, so couldnt possibly have been killed while de-synced... unless there was a de-sync and I was under attack... but my defensive line was intact.... so that wasn't possible...

It was playing completely smoothly as the attack was underway, right up until his forces collapsed due to my superior tech and concentration of force attacking a weak point.... then many pauses, and my units all over the map die?

How do you even try to fight against that?
How do you explain the game playing smoothly at all times, except after the fighting had started (not right as it started, but some time after)

And of course, I noticed that one of the guys on the other team, who I had never played with before, wasn't doing much of anything, probably too busy with whatever cheat program he was using.

Pings were low and it played smoothly before, during the first 10 seconds or soe of the fighting, and after the fighting.

Infinite power on high oil actually doesn't matter so much....
On low oil... it sucks, on an intermediate oil (such as an 8p low oil map played with 2-4 people) with the oil dispersed.... holding out is impressive.

Tech cheating.... depends how bad it is.
One game I had an ally building factories and hardpoints on water, using the naval propulsion, and we all had nexus bodies unlocked before we even had lancers....

And of course, I can't rule out a more subtle form of cheating....

Can you imagine if a player started with Depleted Uranium MG upgrades, he'd do 3x damage from the start with just the normal MG, and it wouldn't affect how fast he unlocks components through research.
*Note that if you get an artifact for a mk3 tech, and you research it, researching the mk1 version of that tech gives you no benefit, but may be needed to unlock something.

A player could start with Vaporturbine generator mk 3.
DU MG bullets,
HESH rocket warhead Mk 1-3,
Rocket Autoloader Mk 1-3
HEAP mini-rockets mk3
Fast fire mini rockets mk3
Stabilized mini rockets mk2
Advanced missile warhead mk3
Advanced missile allocation system mk3
Search and Destroy missiles
HEAP Howitzer Shells mk3
Howitzer Fast Loader
HVAPFSDS Cannon Rounds Mk3
Cannon Rapid Loader Mk3
HEAP Mortar shells mk3
Mortar Fast loader
Hardend rail dart mk3
Railgun ROF mk1-3
AA HEAP Flak mk1-3
AA chainfeed loader/ammunition hopper mk 1-3
Superhot Flamer Gel Mk3
Flamer Autoloader Mk3

Plasteel Mk3
Advanced Base Structure Materials Mk3
Advanced Repair Facility upgrade
Robotic VTOL Rearming Mk3
Self-Replicating Manufacturing
Vehicle Superdense Thermal Armor Mk3

And they wouldn't be able to research ANYTHING earlier, or out of order
They would however, have insane defenses, insane firepower, insane thermal armor, power generation capabilities, rearm rates, etc, but nothing would visually be wrong with what they are doing.
Not as obvious as producing vengeance bodies in 5 minutes from a T-1 game.
If they can resist making Super heavy bodies, they could throw in Gas Turbine and Superdense Composite Alloys Mk3 to give them insanely durable and quick units too.
If they can resist making Assault guns to quickly, they can throw in hyper-fire mg upgrade as well.

No screenshot could prove they were cheating (such as a screen shot showing the settings of T-1, what the timer reads, and a nexus body on screen).

You'll just notice your forces that your thought should have won, or at least put up a good fight/lasted longer, got their arses handed to them.
The ROF upgrades may be easier to notice, but still.

If people can give themselves and their allies any tech they want, they could give themselves+ allies research that won't unlock any new research items or make any new components available.
You'd just conclude the enemy sucks (if you are the ally), or the enemy is very powerful.
Such cheating is far from obvious

Post Reply