3.1 beta4 has been released! (And beta3 has been skipped.)

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driver4
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Re: 3.1 beta4 has been released! (And beta3 has been skipped

Post by driver4 » 23 Feb 2012, 22:08

I made a video showing a problem that I have during gameplay: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UoUcrJyV-LY
This happens on any mode (multiplayer, campaign, skirmish, fastplay, tutorial).
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Re: 3.1 beta4 has been released! (And beta3 has been skipped

Post by cybersphinx » 23 Feb 2012, 22:22

zany wrote:why do all beta releases have savegame problems? :annoyed: they keep fixing other things but savegames are not fixed and it looks like they will drop support for savegames and make this a multiplayer only game :annoyed: :roll: why not roll back the changes so we can have working savegames again?
See http://www.chiark.greenend.org.uk/~sgtatham/bugs.html, "It doesn't work."
We want information... information... information.

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Re: 3.1 beta4 has been released! (And beta3 has been skipped

Post by JDW » 24 Feb 2012, 11:16

In Multiplayer games, when a player leaves , his name is erased from the scoreboard, wasn't it supposed to be only greyed out? Don't remember how it worked on 2.3.9 :lol2: :lol2: :lol2:
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Re: 3.1 beta4 has been released! (And beta3 has been skipped

Post by Happy Camper » 25 Feb 2012, 13:06

effigy wrote: As for the repair station, damaged units block healed units from leaving the repair station, and as such you end up with a high ratio of damge::healed units near repair stations.
Blocking of units has been a problem for me since Beta1. A typical situation is when I retreat a group of trucks close to a group of repair droids. The droids mix with trucks in a way that the trucks don't come free when given the next order.

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Re: 3.1 beta4 has been released! (And beta3 has been skipped

Post by Happy Camper » 25 Feb 2012, 13:14

Shadow Wolf TJC wrote: Note to self: I should try to change how Auto-Repair works by making it work at all times, even while moving. Another note to self: I may need to adjust repair rates significantly in order to balance it out.
Actually, I like the idea that units cannot heal while they are fighting or moving. Otherwise heavily armoured tanks are almost indestructible by droids.

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Re: 3.1 beta4 has been released! (And beta3 has been skipped

Post by JDW » 25 Feb 2012, 13:49

I couldn't find these changes in the changelog, but it seems in 3.1 , the order (or build) queue limit is increased, not sure by how much. Which is a good think of course. Image
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Re: 3.1 beta4 has been released! (And beta3 has been skipped

Post by Iluvalar » 25 Feb 2012, 18:10

When you order you unit to move somewhere, the always push on each other until they reach the maximal density possible. And they all turn in different direction so you are _SURE_ that they will stuck in each other and spread too much once you ask them to move again.

Maybe it's linked, but the trafic jam in beta is a lot more epic and easily replicable. Seems like you cant repair without making a massive jam.

Rambo syndrom. I know it's also happening in 2.3 but it seem more frequent and more intense in 3.1. You truck go on the enemy side to make a repair; One of your unit saw a target of opportunity the other side of that flamer bunker wall and decide to pursue it, etc... In 2.3 at least, they DO come back when you ask them, it 3.1 you have that 2 second delay before they hear you.

Talking about that synch delay... I hate it, and i'm not sure i'll never get used of that. I think you invented a new game genre never seen before : DTS delayed time strategy. XD
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Re: 3.1 beta4 has been released! (And beta3 has been skipped

Post by Cyp » 25 Feb 2012, 18:15

Iluvalar wrote:...

Talking about that synch delay... I hate it, and i'm not sure i'll never get used of that. I think you invented a new game genre never seen before : DTS delayed time strategy. XD
Do you know any multiplayer RTS games (other than Warzone 2100 ≤ 2.3.9) that don't have a delay before units respond?

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Re: 3.1 beta4 has been released! (And beta3 has been skipped

Post by aubergine » 25 Feb 2012, 19:28

I'm also seeing traffic jams, when several units try to reach same location they all keep trying to get to that single spot and keep jostling around trying to get there. This has several side effects:

1. Repair facilities get clogged up
2. Auto-repair rarely kicks in, because they don't stop moving

It would be better if they see the spot is taken by another "stopped" unit, and decide that they will stop in the closest unoccupied location to that stopped unit. They'd make sure they leave a little gap between themselves and the stopped unit.

This could be achieved by having an additional grid system in the code - I'll call it "unit tiles" for want of a better name. A unit tile would be 64x64 pixels. So you could get 4 units in to a map tile (a map tile is 128x128 pixels). When units are instructed to go somewhere, a they place a marker in the unit tile they've been told to go to. But if some other droid (from the same alliance) already has a marker in that tile, then the unit will choose the nearest free unit tile they can reach. (this would work in similar way to "pickStructLocation()" JS API call). This way, units are far less likely to try and squeeze in to a single position like they currently do.

This would also improve VTOLs - currently if I tell a load of VTOLs to move to a position on the map, they all try and land on that one exact spot, resulting in a massive stack of VTOLs landing on top of each other like pancakes. If they used the same unit tile system, they'd land on a free patch of ground (obviously their "droidCanReach()" function would not need to worry about terrain obstacles - it would just find nearest non-cliff/water map tile and allow VTOLs to land within that map tiles unit tiles).

I also noticed that, as mentioned above, units will sometimes try and get repaired at an enemy repair station. Probably just needs a little tweak to DORDER_RTR code to fix that one?
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Re: 3.1 beta4 has been released! (And beta3 has been skipped

Post by Iluvalar » 25 Feb 2012, 20:08

Cyp wrote: Do you know any multiplayer RTS games (other than Warzone 2100 ≤ 2.3.9) that don't have a delay before units respond?
I don't remember such delay in warcraft 1. I played dune II, c&c and starcraft 1. I dont remember being annoyed as much by such as here.

Does SC2 sucks ?
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Re: 3.1 beta4 has been released! (And beta3 has been skipped

Post by JDW » 25 Feb 2012, 22:35

Can't seem to understand all this complaining, but me and some other BDC fellows have enjoyed this release pretty much that we have uninstalled 2.3.9 from our systems.

Auberguine , there is a known bug with the group formations. But it isn't a deal breaker for me.
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Re: 3.1 beta4 has been released! (And beta3 has been skipped

Post by Emdek » 25 Feb 2012, 22:41

I can say that at least from campaign point of view 3.1 is better than 2.3.9 (I nearly don't play other modes, so I won't compare them), most important issues were fixed (some of them still exists in 2.3.9 AFAIK), although there are still few small annoyances.
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Re: 3.1 beta4 has been released! (And beta3 has been skipped

Post by aubergine » 25 Feb 2012, 23:06

@JDW - I'm not complaining as such, I think warzone is getting massively better with each release, I'm totally hooked on 3.1 branch!

I don't play MP games currently so I can't comment on the lag issue (there is no lag in skirmish games that I can see so maybe it's just online MP games that have the issue?)
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Re: 3.1 beta4 has been released! (And beta3 has been skipped

Post by NoQ » 25 Feb 2012, 23:34

aubergine wrote:(there is no lag in skirmish games that I can see so maybe it's just online MP games that have the issue?)
There is some lag in skirmish if your cpu is slow enough.
Iluvalar wrote:I don't remember such delay in warcraft 1. I played dune II, c&c and starcraft 1. I dont remember being annoyed as much by such as here.
Well, i remember being annoyed by units never reaching their destination, but trying to walk straight through the forest instead. The pathfinding failed pretty often, but was ultra CPU-cheap (even if we take 20 times faster CPU, the algorithm complexity increase will eat it up easily).

No, I'm not saying it's not worth fixing.

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Re: 3.1 beta4 has been released! (And beta3 has been skipped

Post by effigy » 26 Feb 2012, 02:27

I've made a compelling documentary about these rouge droids: Tank Dance!i
This is why some features aren't implemented: http://forums.wz2100.net/viewtopic.php?f=30&t=7490&view=unread#p87241

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