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Skrim
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Re: Hi.

Post by Skrim » 31 Oct 2008, 13:16

ziserman wrote:Just wanted to comment on your 2nd novel skrim, 1st mission of 3d campaign. I never use VTOLs agaisnt a so advanced enemy, neither do i use artillery. I prefer the good old heavy cannons, they kill cyborgs much faster. Set up a banker (a machinegun one, since it's cheap) to draw fire on the surprise attacks, then use your tanks to draw the enemy back. Should you gain enough forces, attack and pick the cyborgs and the hovers one by one. If you use this technique well enough, you won't have a single casualty, only extra cost to starting forces was my bunker :)

edit: spelling
That was ages ago. That was the first time I ever played the campaign.

The second time around I did set up a wall of 4 Assault Gun Bunkers, let a truck sit around to repair them and didn't ever have to worry about the NEXUS patrol-squad again. My tanks had also been upgraded to Assault Gun Tiger Tracks and were able to stomp through there bases without much problem, and were also able to defend against anything except for air attacks, "all your bases are belong to us" attacks(i.e, Gamma 5) and super space-laser attacks(i.e Gamma 8).

I've followed that strat for Gamma 1 since then.

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Re: Hi.

Post by ziserman » 31 Oct 2008, 22:17

Skrim wrote:
ziserman wrote:Just wanted to comment on your 2nd novel skrim, 1st mission of 3d campaign. I never use VTOLs agaisnt a so advanced enemy, neither do i use artillery. I prefer the good old heavy cannons, they kill cyborgs much faster. Set up a banker (a machinegun one, since it's cheap) to draw fire on the surprise attacks, then use your tanks to draw the enemy back. Should you gain enough forces, attack and pick the cyborgs and the hovers one by one. If you use this technique well enough, you won't have a single casualty, only extra cost to starting forces was my bunker :)

edit: spelling
That was ages ago. That was the first time I ever played the campaign.

The second time around I did set up a wall of 4 Assault Gun Bunkers, let a truck sit around to repair them and didn't ever have to worry about the NEXUS patrol-squad again. My tanks had also been upgraded to Assault Gun Tiger Tracks and were able to stomp through there bases without much problem, and were also able to defend against anything except for air attacks, "all your bases are belong to us" attacks(i.e, Gamma 5) and super space-laser attacks(i.e Gamma 8).

I've followed that strat for Gamma 1 since then.
I was talking about the 1st gamma base mission only. Later on, you may get the money for more expensive stuff, like changing your python heavy cannons from beta base to tiger mgs, On entering gamma base, i had only two machinegun tanks with me, rest 15-20 were cannons and lancers... and a radar, couldn't afford to replace them yet.

And if you are referring to building 4 bunkers and not using mobile forces until you actually attack, didn't work out for me. I've been using 10-16 experienced tanks, either with cannons, mgs or lancers, to which i've been giving exp from the start of the game, i manage not to lose one of them at alpha and beta missions, but not here. I need to use baits, cheaper, well armored non-experienced troops, but i don't have the money to build these at gamma 1, so i just use the sole bunker as bait as i take out their patrol forces. I never manage to take out 1 cyborg or hovertank per attack, about half this ration. But if i use 4 bunkers, i wouldn't have the space for heavy cannons or lancers, so at least i actually kill a few enemies.

If i don't destroy the patrols while defending, at least 2 of my experienced tanks will die on the attack, not an option, keeping them alive for 20 missions just to lose them now...

And by the way, i think the key to early campaign missions, aren't hit and run attacks with poorly armored forces, like VToLs, since i can't afford to lose them. I need the oil so bad just for the key structures

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Re: Hi.

Post by Army Unit » 01 Nov 2008, 00:44

This thread is going to take me years to read. :P Why do you have to post whole books? (or something of the same length)

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Re: Hi.

Post by Skrim » 01 Nov 2008, 14:16

Army Unit wrote:This thread is going to take me years to read. :P Why do you have to post whole books? (or something of the same length)
Obsession with detail. I had to cut down my recent Alpha 12 description to one word("epic") from what was turning out to be another long novel, and don't get me started on the Beta 3 I played last night. Heck, I could write up one of those long posts about the first 5 minutes of Beta 1 if the topic ever came up.
I was talking about the 1st gamma base mission only. Later on, you may get the money for more expensive stuff, like changing your python heavy cannons from beta base to tiger mgs, On entering gamma base, i had only two machinegun tanks with me, rest 15-20 were cannons and lancers... and a radar, couldn't afford to replace them yet.

And if you are referring to building 4 bunkers and not using mobile forces until you actually attack, didn't work out for me. I've been using 10-16 experienced tanks, either with cannons, mgs or lancers, to which i've been giving exp from the start of the game, i manage not to lose one of them at alpha and beta missions, but not here. I need to use baits, cheaper, well armored non-experienced troops, but i don't have the money to build these at gamma 1, so i just use the sole bunker as bait as i take out their patrol forces. I never manage to take out 1 cyborg or hovertank per attack, about half this ration. But if i use 4 bunkers, i wouldn't have the space for heavy cannons or lancers, so at least i actually kill a few enemies.

If i don't destroy the patrols while defending, at least 2 of my experienced tanks will die on the attack, not an option, keeping them alive for 20 missions just to lose them now...

And by the way, i think the key to early campaign missions, aren't hit and run attacks with poorly armored forces, like VToLs, since i can't afford to lose them. I need the oil so bad just for the key structures
From Alpha 6 to the end of the game, I have 2 commander-led heavy ground groups equipped with whatever I feel best to fit the situation. Throughout Beta, this mainstay unit is the Heavy Cannon Python Tracks, and I have around about 40 of them, mostly experienced, by the time the Destroy SAM Sites mission comes around.

I usually send only 1 group on Away missions, not counting giant final-showdowns like Alpha 12 or Gamma 9, because 1 group(together with an artillery group or VTOLs) tends to be enough to assault whatever it is that needs to be assaulted.

So in the Beta Away stages towards the end(Destroy SAM Sites and Establish Safe Haven), I have one group re-equip with Assault Gun armed tanks, while I send the other ground group with some VTOL squadrons and the necessary trucks & scout planes to actually do the mission. I hide the A-Gun tanks in my ridiculously fortified Beta Base(the fortifications are there to deflect the relentless Collective attacks in Beta:Evacuate) and load them(along with trucks and my 2 commanders) on to the Transport as priority cargo during Beta:Evacuate. The Heavy Cannon tanks follow after the necessary quota of trucks and Assault Guns have been shipped. The VTOLs are left to die.

So I land up in Gamma land with Assault Guns and trucks and a commander. The Assault Guns go and take on the Cyborgs while the trucks build stuff. Once the trucks are done with the essential stuff, they go build 4 Assault Gun Bunkers to seal up the gap between the two cliffs. They have at least 1 bunker done when the NEXUS hovertank welcome party shows up, and this bunker absorbs damage and the trucks repair it, while my units attack the hovertanks and drive them off, maybe killing 1 or a few. I then complete the 4-AG wall for good measure, and and then go on the offensive.

Once the enemy is left with only 1 sensor tower or command center or other harmless building to keep the mission timer ticking, and I have some more cash on hand, I refit the entire army with Tiger-based units and build fresh-out-of-the-box VTOLs and VTOL infrastructure. The most experienced tanks and the best commander are then hand-picked for Gamma 2, and fortifications and artillery infrastructure are set up wherever needed until the timer runs down to 2-3 minutes, when that last harmless building is blown up and the mission ends.

Having only 10-16 experienced units and bringing over only 2 Assault Guns, a frickin' radar, and Lancers(well, if your talking about TKs then it's ok), sounds like bad preparation.
And by the way, i think the key to early campaign missions, aren't hit and run attacks with poorly armored forces, like VToLs, since i can't afford to lose them. I need the oil so bad just for the key structures
Eh?

You don't have VTOLs in the early Alpha and Beta campaigns, so I'll assume that your talking about Gamma. If you don't have oil, then you must not be milking the mission timer correctly, or at all. Even if you have nothing to do during the breather time, you can increase the speed of the game to make it pass by.

Gamma 2 can be done with artillery and normal ground forces, though I like using Bunker Buster-armed Leopard VTOLs(I could use Bug or Viper, but I just prefer Leopard because it looks more airworthy) and MG-Bug scout planes to take out enemy SAMs and then take out the actual enemy base while my ground forces laze around defending against cyborg and hovertank attacks. The VTOLs are fresh-baked with no experience anyway, and I recycle them through a Repair Facility once the escape-the-nuke stage arrives.

Gamma 3 is another arty-oriented stage, kicked off with an arty crossfire between your prepared arty emplacements/units(which you should have set up earlier) and the NEXUS Angels, followed by your arty emplacements/units annihilating most of the enemy property(SAM sites, hardpoints, their Command Center and several cyborgs & hovertanks), before you send either a tank group or VTOL squads to take out the stolen Project Gamma Base*.

*Athough it's not the point here, I consider the Team Gamma leader an incompetent slob. I mean, what the heck was he doing with those damn'd Medium Cannon Cobra Tracks at this stage in the game??? I remember that those antiques entered service back in Alpha 6 and were phased out in Alpha 9, making a minor appearance in Beta 1. But no, Team Gamma is still using them in Gamma 3, and even in Gamma 6! If I were NEXUS, I'd not bother with capturing them and would've just wiped 'em out straight. Even the Alpha leader was better, at least he kept up with the pace of progress after his predecessor(the player) went over to rescue Beta Base. This is evident in that the Project forces recovered in Gamma 4 are at least up to par with Gamma 1 technology, with Assault Guns, Heavy Cannons and Tank Killers on Python Tracks.

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Re: Hi.

Post by themousemaster » 02 Nov 2008, 17:30

Imma not quote for sanity's sake... well, except for this part:
Skrim wrote:The VTOLs are left to die.
That seems so very cruel.

That's one of the reasons I'm OC enough to makes sure that I never have more than 40 units in BETA stages, if I add together my trucks and my attack units. So "no one gets left behind" ;p.



PROTIP:

during BETA: EVACUATE!, if you ever end up with ZERO units on screen, the stage comes to an immediate end, rather than counting down. So if you really can't fit all your units into the 4 transport loads, then after #4 gets offscreen, just recycle everything else. As long as you don't save, quit, and reload your game, the recycled EXP will still be in your build queue when you get to gamma... which, technically, means they came to Gamma with you, so they weren't vaporized :).




As for gamma commander not being very... "with the times" in G3... if he was aware that he was going to be fleeing the base (to return for G6), maybe he intentionally left G3's base in poor shape so Nexus didn't take much? Or maybe Nexus made those forces so that G3's base looks "legitimate", and he had actually captured it a while ago? As for G6... uhh... maybe that was an older, decomissioned base that Gamma commander fled to after he lost G3, so he didn't have time to rebuild it...

Don't look at me that way. And no, the mission videos don't explain it.



Lastly:

I noticed something in 2.1.beta5 that I had never seen before, not sure if it's new, but it is quite useful. Those units in G5 that you save? They each have THIRTY-FIVE HUNDRED kills worth of experience on them, making them all units easily capable of becoming Heroic Commanders, or whatever else you want. I found that cool ;p

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Re: Hi.

Post by Skrim » 03 Nov 2008, 16:25

As long as you don't save, quit, and reload your game, the recycled EXP will still be in your build queue when you get to gamma... which, technically, means they came to Gamma with you, so they weren't vaporized :).
Cool. So you scrap the machines but the crews get taken along. Sounds good to me.
As for gamma commander not being very... "with the times" in G3... if he was aware that he was going to be fleeing the base (to return for G6), maybe he intentionally left G3's base in poor shape so Nexus didn't take much? Or maybe Nexus made those forces so that G3's base looks "legitimate", and he had actually captured it a while ago? As for G6... uhh... maybe that was an older, decomissioned base that Gamma commander fled to after he lost G3, so he didn't have time to rebuild it...
Well... apart from just making stupid mistakes, there could be some legitimate reasons why the Gamma commander was still using Alpha-6 vintage MediumCannon Cobra Tracks so late in the game:

-Gamma 3 Base had only 1 oil derrick. So he was short of oil and decided to go for cheaper units like those Machinegunner cyborgs and the Alpha-6 tanks, and simply couldn't afford to build Assault Guns and Heavy Cannons with Pythons and Tigers.

-Until it was discovered that the nukes targeted at Alpha and Beta Bases had originated from the Northern Sector, Team Gamma had really nothing to do, having found no artifacts and encountered no hostiles. They were more exploration-oriented than Team Alpha(fighting the Scavengers and New Paradigm) and Team Beta(fighting the Collective) and didn't care so much for military might.
This point is also proven in that Team Gamma found the NEXUS nuke silos, but they had to send in the player's army to destroy them. They also found the anti-satellite missile silos(and again needed the player's forces to capture them), and they also re-established contact with the away team from Gamma 2.
Don't look at me that way. And no, the mission videos don't explain it.
I downloaded and watched the FMVs outside of the game. They make the game feel a lot more serious. Obviously, the intro movie and the Gamma 8 victory movie were the best. The synaptic link movie, Dr. Reed history movie, Project team updates movie, NASDA movie, Campaign victory movie, Alpha 6 victory movie and Collective intro were also good.

The Collective's logo and voice are cool, but the New Paradigm has a lousy logo and really lousy voice... the black-screen version of their messages felt more sinister than the cutscene version. NEXUS also has a stupid beginning to their messages with their spinning metal-thing logo, and NEXUS' evil laugh(at the end of every message) is just plain irritating and in no way threatening.

There were also a couple of lines of dialog in the movies that were left out in the black screen messages like "It's quiet and peaceful up here in the mountains" in the Team Gamma Project team update, and "it is 98% certain that the New Paradigm has recovered synaptic link technology, and therefore, we must recover it from them" in the Alpha 6 victory movie. The Team Beta Project team update is totally different from the black-screen text.
I noticed something in 2.1.beta5 that I had never seen before, not sure if it's new, but it is quite useful. Those units in G5 that you save? They each have THIRTY-FIVE HUNDRED kills worth of experience on them, making them all units easily capable of becoming Heroic Commanders, or whatever else you want. I found that cool ;p
Sounds like a stupid bug. So you could send a huge crapload of fresh, inexperienced units to Gamma 2, more than what you need, and have veritable legions of Hero units appear all of a sudden at the start of Gamma 6.

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Re: Hi.

Post by themousemaster » 04 Nov 2008, 16:56

Skrim wrote:Sounds like a stupid bug. So you could send a huge crapload of fresh, inexperienced units to Gamma 2, more than what you need, and have veritable legions of Hero units appear all of a sudden at the start of Gamma 6.
Not sure if "veritable legion" is appropriate... you only rescue 7 battle-tanks. Which, if they've survived the alpha evacuation and drove all the way to YOU, having them be hero sounds about right (there isn't any difference between a 512-kill hero and a 3500-kill hero, after all)

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Re: Hi.

Post by Skrim » 04 Nov 2008, 17:21

Oh.

So you're talking about Team Alpha from Gamma 4. I thought you were saying that the units you sent in Gamma 2 which got lost and returned in Gamma 6 all turned into Heroes.

Seeing the FMVs, the distance between the Western Sector and the Northern Sector is pretty damn huge, so yes, it is a heroic journey fighting off Scavengers, New Paradigm remnants and NEXUS forces. If I were the leader of that group, I'd have taken them to the Project main HQ in the Rocky Mountains, which is much closer.

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Re: Hi.

Post by themousemaster » 04 Nov 2008, 23:18

Skrim wrote:If I were the leader of that group, I'd have taken them to the Project main HQ in the Rocky Mountains, which is much closer.
They be troopers ;p

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Re: Hi.

Post by marcmad » 05 Nov 2008, 15:05

if you want more difficulty in the campaign, do it at the hardest whit no mortar/bombard/hellstorm etc...(don't know how to said this kind of gun)
and whit no vtol.
only tank.
Good luck.
That possible but hard.

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Re: Hi.

Post by marcmad » 05 Nov 2008, 15:06

or try a skirmish game whit no vtol (cut vtol factory)
and no defense.
(at the hardest of course)

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Re: Hi.

Post by HolyDragoon » 06 Nov 2008, 05:00

viewtopic.php?f=19&t=1864

This might be able to help with your beta5 fonts issue (that or i fail at this stuff)
"Relativity applies to Physics, not Ethics." - Albert Einstein

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Re: Hi.

Post by Skrim » 25 Nov 2008, 18:14

I finally got around to testing a hover-centric strategy for Gamma 7.

Gamma 3 was easy. Gamma 4 was very easy. Gamma 5 saw NEXUS try and take on my most impressive and cool-looking series of fortifications yet(which took full advantage of geography and terrain) and get annihilated in record time for the loss of 3 Flamer bunkers, a factory, a VTOL factory, a handful of AA emplacements, and a couple of VTOLs. My best Gamma 5 so far. Not a single tank was lost. Gamma 6 was easy too. I lost a single tank though when 6 Angel batteries and a Scourge Tower focus-fired on it. Most importantly in Gamma 6, I obtained the Scourge Missile and Retribution chassis, which allowed me to create Scourge Missile Retribution Hovers, a direct rip-off of the NEXUS design.
___________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________
I used Tank Group #2, artillery from Gamma Base and VTOL strikes to knock down the defenses in the mid-region of the map and level the airbase in the southwest, and got NEXUS' Angels tied up in a CB war with my well-placed and invulnerable Ground Shaker emplacements. I then saved the game.

The first time around, I tried attacking the eastern ridge fortifications with my newly-built hover-tank group, consisting of 9 Pro-level tanks with no commander. They failed miserably and took unacceptable losses. So I fell back on my regular tank groups, but they got tied up by NEXUS' two roving attack groups. NEXUS had apparently up-armored their tanks, since the majority of my firepower, coming from Assault Guns, seemed to have no effect whatsoever on enemy hover-tanks. Frustrated by the losses and unable to make progress, I quit.

After doing a bit of analysis, the second time around I changed strategy. I recycled all the Assault Gun Tiger Tracks from my spearhead group, Tank Group #1, and attached my hover-tank squadron to the group, making up a group of 5 heavy tanks and 9 hovers with 8 free slots, while my factories churned out Flashlight Tiger Tracks with better armor-defeating capability to fill the remaining slots. In battle against NEXUS attack groups, the new combined group proved itself to be surprisingly effective, with Heavy Cannon Tiger Tracks tanking damage while my long-ranged Scourge hovers dealt damage to the enemy, killing about 2 tanks and a handful of cyborgs every time the enemy groups showed up.

Once all 22 slots were filled, I went on an offensive. After driving away one NEXUS combat group and eradicating another one retreating from the north, I busted through the first layer of fortifications and established a Repair Facility on the new ground. After that I blitzed into the NEXUS base and took out the defensive towers before dueling it out with the remaining cyborgs and tanks and then knocking down the factories. When the dust settled, there was no opposition left.
___________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________

The combined group was set to Retreat at Medium, Fire at Long Range, and Fire at Will. With the Scourge being a homing weapon, inaccuracy was no problem. When the group was issued a move command, the hovers would match speed with the heavy tanks and let them go ahead and tank damage. When an attack command was issued, they'd go full speed and take positions at long-range to the target, and if damaged, they'd retreat at full speed. Unlike a conventional group in which returning units would ram face-on to retreating units and trap them in 'traffic jams', the hovers' fluid handling let them get away quickly. This was my first Gamma 7 run with no combat units lost - though I did lose an MG-Bug scout plane and a truck. Previous times, I'd lose about 2 tanks due to traffic jams and persisting NEXUS attack groups.

So, yeah, I'd conclude that the hover strategy worked.

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Re: Hi.

Post by Army Unit » 26 Nov 2008, 06:41

You know, you people would be good at writing books. But can you PLEASE stop typing long post! :-S

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Re: Hi.

Post by lav_coyote25 » 26 Nov 2008, 07:02

Army Unit wrote:You know, you people would be good at writing books. But can you PLEASE stop typing long post! :-S

that isnt a long post... :) and yes there are some excellent people here that could and possibly do write books. keep writing - you know who you are!! :3

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