Merging MP tech tree with Campaign

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MIH-XTC
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Merging MP tech tree with Campaign

Post by MIH-XTC » 21 Jul 2019, 15:06

I'm putting the mp tech tree in campaign and I'm noticing research upgrades do not automatically become available when prerequisites are complete. For example, the 2nd engine upgrade should become available after the 1st engine upgrade is finished. In mp this is the case but in campaign it is not. It's not intuitive.

I think the approach of declaring what tech is available and what can be researched for each mission is based on the false premise that the tech tree was never properly balanced. It's not supposed to be like this.

The entire tech tree should be available from the very start beginning in cam1B. The reason this isn't the case is because research will become very unbalanced after a few missions. I can fix this...

1. research is already much more expensive.
2. reduce the excess time on the mission timers. Players shouldn't be allowed to sit around for 30 minutes researching things forever
3. add more things to the tech tree. This is already done
4. get rid of excess power bonuses for winning early. I think I received 4000 or some insane number. 400 would be more appropriate.

this means the research choices and consequences of cam1 has a huge impact on cam2 and cam3 if players choose to play the whole thing. For example, if a player does not research cannons in cam1 then railgun won't be available in cam3 for use by the player. This is just like mp... if a player does not research cannons then they cannot use rail gun.

As it stands now, I believe the tech tree experience is exactly the same in campaign regardless of what choices are made. This will no longer be the case. The things available for research will be different each time a person plays the campaign depending on what the player chooses. I will ensure that there are more research choices available than what is possible to research. This means it's impossible to research everything so players will have to choose what they want. I'll calculate the max power theoretically produced in each mission and ensure the total cost of research is larger. This means even if a player spent 100% of power on research they still wouldn't be able to finish the tech tree.

There will be some certain hard checks on the state of research in the beginning of some missions to avoid impossible win conditions but generally speaking the state of research should be entirely up to the player. There might also need to be some cleanup of the research menu by completing certain antiquated tech to prevent too many things.


But I can't figure out at the moment why research items do not automatically become available when all of their prerequisites are met. I just want to explicitly declare all research is available for all missions and do away with specifying components and tech for individual missions.

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alfred007
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Re: Merging MP tech tree with Campaign

Post by alfred007 » 21 Jul 2019, 16:02

MIH-XTC wrote:I'm putting the mp tech tree in campaign and I'm noticing research upgrades do not automatically become available when prerequisites are complete. For example, the 2nd engine upgrade should become available after the 1st engine upgrade is finished. In mp this is the case but in campaign it is not. It's not intuitive.
Researching in campaign is completely different compared to mp. In campaign you have to find artifacts to research something. In this example, you can only research the 2nd engine upgrade after you found the artifact for the 2nd engine upgrade. So before you are messing around with the tech tree in campaign I recommend to play the whole campaign for a better understanding of the differences between campaign and mp.

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Berserk Cyborg
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Re: Merging MP tech tree with Campaign

Post by Berserk Cyborg » 21 Jul 2019, 16:11

MIH-XTC wrote:
21 Jul 2019, 15:06
I'm putting the mp tech tree in campaign and I'm noticing research upgrades do not automatically become available when prerequisites are complete. For example, the 2nd engine upgrade should become available after the 1st engine upgrade is finished. In mp this is the case but in campaign it is not. It's not intuitive.
Might be due to the research stat key "keyTopic". It prevents auto-enabling of technologies in campaign (for some reason, a lot of multiplayer research has a bunch of these keys in them, which can be removed safely).
MIH-XTC wrote:
21 Jul 2019, 15:06
I think the approach of declaring what tech is available and what can be researched for each mission is based on the false premise that the tech tree was never properly balanced. It's not supposed to be like this.

The entire tech tree should be available from the very start beginning in cam1B. The reason this isn't the case is because research will become very unbalanced after a few missions. I can fix this...
One of the main objectives of the story is to go around, beat up the bad guy, and steal and collect their tech via artifacts over the span of many missions. Finally destroying them after you both become evenly matched. Why this is done has nothing to do about the, quite poor, balance of the campaign. It's a story related mechanic and not up change from personal opinions of anyone.

If you want this to be part of the official Alpha-Beta-Gamma campaigns someday, and not just a mod, it will have to abide by the bounds of the video sequences. Which is pretty much the only limit. And this means spreading out the tech across the three of them, with limits on what can be acquired in each campaign. What tech can be acquired where can be pretty lenient though.

And while I agree the stats could be shared between multiplayer and campaign, I can't see them ever sharing the same research tree because of the fundamental gameplay differences between the two.

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Re: Merging MP tech tree with Campaign

Post by MIH-XTC » 21 Jul 2019, 16:59

alfred007 wrote:
21 Jul 2019, 16:02
Researching in campaign is completely different compared to mp. In campaign you have to find artifacts to research something. In this example, you can only research the 2nd engine upgrade after you found the artifact for the 2nd engine upgrade. So before you are messing around with the tech tree in campaign I recommend to play the whole campaign for a better understanding of the differences between campaign and mp.
yea I understand about the artifacts. This means artifact-related research should not be possible before the artifact becomes available. For example, if the 2nd engine upgrade artifact becomes available from destroying a certain structure then it should not be possible to research the 2nd engine upgrade before destroying that structure assuming the player has had perfect research from cam1a.

The artifacts will essentially give a "jump" in the tech tree even if the player has had 100% perfect research up until that point. This is what I mean by the tech tree getting out of balance if a player is allowed to free research whatever they want. I can fix all of this.
Berserk Cyborg wrote:
21 Jul 2019, 16:11
Might be due to the research stat key "keyTopic". It prevents auto-enabling of technologies in campaign (for some reason, a lot of multiplayer research has a bunch of these keys in them, which can be removed safely).
Ah I think you’re right, it’s the keyTopic. That’s what I’m looking for.
Berserk Cyborg wrote:
21 Jul 2019, 16:11

If you want this to be part of the official Alpha-Beta-Gamma campaigns someday, and not just a mod, it will have to abide by the bounds of the video sequences.
I agree, nobody here can make additional video sequences so we’re bound by that but my intentions aren’t to change the storyline; just gameplay dynamics. Any changes to storyline or things that are significant should just be a cam4, 5 or 6.
Berserk Cyborg wrote:
21 Jul 2019, 16:11

And while I agree the stats could be shared between multiplayer and campaign, I can't see them ever sharing the same research tree because of the fundamental gameplay differences between the two.
Oh it’s definitely going to happen. I should be done in the next few days. I spoke too soon in the other thread about having EB stats in campaign. I only did a partial merge on the stats thinking I could skip a few things but it didn’t work. I ended up doing a full merge on the stats and I have EB working with all campaigns now. I also imported EB into FlaMe and have that working too.

I’ll update my Github in a few days with everything for you guys to review.

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Re: Merging MP tech tree with Campaign

Post by MIH-XTC » 21 Jul 2019, 17:21

Just tried this out. This will be easier than I thought. I just removed all keyTopic flags and then re-added them for the artifact related stuff only. That's all that was needed.

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