Help needed testing 3.2.x Campaign games!

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Re: Help needed testing 3.2.x Campaign games!

Postby NoQ » 26 Jul 2018, 16:20

AndrewTheOnly wrote:I was wondering, do these changes that are happening in campaign, like balance changes, new structures, etc... will also apply to multiplayer?

No. Balance has never been the same in campaign and multiplayer, completely separate sets of stats are used.
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Re: Help needed testing 3.2.x Campaign games!

Postby AndrewTheOnly » 28 Jul 2018, 06:52

NoQ wrote:
AndrewTheOnly wrote:I was wondering, do these changes that are happening in campaign, like balance changes, new structures, etc... will also apply to multiplayer?

No. Balance has never been the same in campaign and multiplayer, completely separate sets of stats are used.


I'm quite relieved to be honest. The flamer would be too much of an overpowered weapon in the early game.
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Re: Help needed testing 3.2.x Campaign games!

Postby AndrewTheOnly » 28 Jul 2018, 07:03

alfred007 wrote:
You shouldn't give up so fast.


True

alfred007 wrote:
Train your ability to move your units without losing one. You will need this in the later levels. One trick is to have your units in motion. If they stand in front of enemy weapons the fire get's concentrated on one of your units. When you move, other units are moving in the way and instead that one unit receives all the dealt damage the damaged is spread over several units.


That's a game changing tactic. I had a moment when I had a single Double Assault Cannon Tank vs 5 Double Assault Gun Tanks and I won that fight. The only reason being is that I kept moving my tank and tried to avoid the enemy shots. Did I mention my tank was low health and about to die? Anyway, I thought I would lose that battle for sure, but apparently, moving my tank while shooting made my win the fight, and I went insane after that. I always knew that moving targets are hard to hit, but for warzone I thought that bullets are like homing missiles, that they always hit their target . I ended up changing my mind after that.

alfred007 wrote:
And you can slow down the game speed so that you have more time for your manoeuvres.


Isn't that considered cheating?
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Re: Help needed testing 3.2.x Campaign games!

Postby alfred007 » 28 Jul 2018, 13:07

AndrewTheOnly wrote:
alfred007 wrote:
And you can slow down the game speed so that you have more time for your manoeuvres.


Isn't that considered cheating?

This is a question that everyone has to answer for themselves. The AI has an (unfair?) advantage by doing several orders at the same time, something you can't do. Usually, I do that in situations when I have to control several combat groups in large maps or to compensate the changed hold order. The current hold order has not the same functionality as the old one, so I have to rearrange groups I gave the hold order again and again and again and again....... And to simulate the situation that I have a correct working hold order I slow down the game speed. Even NoQ used it in his walkthrough on youtube (see beta 7 aka sub_2d). And it helps you to train your moving abilities until they are so good that you don't have to use it any more.
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Re: Help needed testing 3.2.x Campaign games!

Postby alfred007 » 04 Aug 2018, 18:48

@Berserk Cyborg
Is ticket #4815 so serious that I should wait with testing or can I move forward? I have holidays at the moment so I have some time left for more balance testing,
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Re: Help needed testing 3.2.x Campaign games!

Postby Berserk Cyborg » 04 Aug 2018, 20:25

alfred007 wrote:@Berserk Cyborg
Is ticket #4815 so serious that I should wait with testing or can I move forward? I have holidays at the moment so I have some time left for more balance testing,
It's a bit of a gamble. A workaround is to create multiple saves and hope one will work.

Edit:
@alfred007, could you try Gamma 6 with the latest master and this mod? Reticule buttons should now reset on the transition event in the event no units are donated at that moment. And Nexus will say a few more things on Gamma 5 now that eventObjectTransfer is fired for campaign. Oh, and the HQ and similar base structures will finally donate to Nexus.

Also, the rules.js for both campaign and skirmish is available in this mod. Both show the reticule only if a completed structure exists (well, need an eventStructureDemolish still). Did away with the command relay requirement for the command button since it confused some people.

I moved some Alpha 4 labels from group to area to squelch those invalid map group warnings when reloading saves. Need to create a ticket about that.

Edit2: It is now in master.
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Re: Help needed testing 3.2.x Campaign games!

Postby NoQ » 13 Aug 2018, 17:25

Even NoQ used it in his walkthrough on youtube (see beta 7 aka sub_2d).

I see that i reduced speed from 1.5x to 1.0x at some point, but that is definitely legal.
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Re: Help needed testing 3.2.x Campaign games!

Postby alfred007 » Yesterday, 15:56

NoQ wrote:
Even NoQ used it in his walkthrough on youtube (see beta 7 aka sub_2d).

I see that i reduced speed from 1.5x to 1.0x at some point, but that is definitely legal.


I checked that and it seems that I remembered wrong. I'm sorry. :oops:
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Re: Help needed testing 3.2.x Campaign games!

Postby alfred007 » Yesterday, 17:56

Berserk Cyborg wrote:@alfred007, could you try Gamma 6 with the latest master and this mod? Reticule buttons should now reset on the transition event in the event no units are donated at that moment. And Nexus will say a few more things on Gamma 5 now that eventObjectTransfer is fired for campaign. Oh, and the HQ and similar base structures will finally donate to Nexus.

I restarted with master 9dca83b an old saved game from the end of gamma 04. At the beginning of gamma 05 Nexus said four times that he neutralized a unit. But he didn't. No units of mine were neutralized or absorbed. Then he said that the synaptic link is activated and a building is neutralized. This neutralized building is my HQ. Then he's laughing five or six times before he absorbs one of my trucks. So the first four messages of Nexus are wrong (or something happened that I didn't notice, but there are definitely no units of mine absorbed or neutralized), after that everything worked fine. I like it that Nexus now also absorbs trucks, something he didn't in the versions before. I started gamma 05 three times, every time with the same behaviour. I used the German videos, so maybe in the English videos the messages are right, but in the German videos the first four are wrong. In all three tries Nexus doesn't absorb one of my factories or research facilities what he did in the versions before. Is that intended? I would prefer if he also absorbs factories and research facilities. And I would also like it if the absorbed trucks would start to build something if they have the chance to do so and the absorbed factories start to produce Nexus units.

In gamma 06 the reticule buttons show up as soon as my units reached the southern base.

Logs are added.

I will move forward with balance testing as soon as the patch from pastdue in ticket #4815 is implemented in the master version so that I don't have any problems with saved games.
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logs gamma 5 and 6.zip
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Re: Help needed testing 3.2.x Campaign games!

Postby Berserk Cyborg » 45 minutes ago

I believe the main reason is the potential sound spam for the neutralized events in eventDestroyed (which the beginning of this mission has enough already). In such cases sounds might coincide with something you see a second or two later. So I changed the nexus hack function to randomly prefer destroying an object, and play the neutralize sounds there instead, or being given it. Right now it's a 80% chance to transfer and 20% to destroy.

alfred007 wrote:I would prefer if he also absorbs factories and research facilities. And I would also like it if the absorbed trucks would start to build something if they have the chance to do so and the absorbed factories start to produce Nexus units.
Nexus still absorbs them, just the probablity is unlikely. So I made absorbing factories more common.

I am not sure how to add donated factories to the libcampaign automatic factory management system yet. But it is better for the mission to act like it did in previous iterations of Warzone. So, for now, a manual management of factories and newly produced units are done in the Gamma 5 script. Absorbed trucks will be defenses next themselves, too.

alfred007 wrote:I used the German videos, so maybe in the English videos the messages are right, but in the German videos the first four are wrong.
What do you mean? Sorry, I am confused with how that was worded.

I can assure you the English sounds are correct. It says the HQ was absorbed for me. I did, however, download the German sequences. And I think the structure absorbed and neutralized sounds are off.

Could you try putting this in the script debugger to confirm this (choose the cam3-ab script tab)?
Code: Select all
playSound(STRUCTURE_ABSORBED); playSound(STRUCTURE_NEUTRALIZE);


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Re: Help needed testing 3.2.x Campaign games!

Postby alfred007 » 11 minutes ago

Berserk Cyborg wrote:In such cases sounds might coincide with something you see a second or two later.

Not in this case. Nexus said four times that he neutralized a unit but no units were neutralized or absorbed. Neither at the moment the message was played nor any time later. For the first truck he absorbed, a new message was played that a unit gets absorbed.

Berserk Cyborg wrote:I am not sure how to add donated factories to the libcampaign automatic factory management system yet.

It was just an idea and if it's too much work to implement it, it's ok if you don't do it.

Berserk Cyborg wrote:
alfred007 wrote:I used the German videos, so maybe in the English videos the messages are right, but in the German videos the first four are wrong.
What do you mean? Sorry, I am confused with how that was worded.

What I meant with "The first four are wrong" are the first four messages that Nexus neutralized a unit, what he didn't. And I didn't check if this is an issue only in the German videos or a general issue that occurs both in the German and the English videos.

Berserk Cyborg wrote:Could you try putting this in the script debugger to confirm this (choose the cam3-ab script tab)?

I'm sorry, but you have to explain me step by step what to do. You told me what to do but I don't know how to do it.
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