Naval War

[ciarson]

After fighting on ground, on air and over lakes to suppress threats in america, what about fighting on the seas for offshore platform, island and artifact to secure the oceans .
Due to this new type of warzone, new types of techs appears.
Here is all my ideas about it. This can be in vain but i really wanted to said it.

nb: most tech could only be researched after building a shipyard.

submarine propulsion ‘s unit
- ballistic submarine : rocket launching type.
- attack submarine : torpedo launching type. (but can also be equiped with a canon turret like the U-boot)
-landing submarine : could carry some cyborg stealthly behind ennemi line
-stealth submarine and sonar technology : to make submarine harder to counter.

surface propulsion (in research order)
-corvette class :
Special ship for mine sweeping and mine placing, good for harassing
low cost fast ship( as fast as a hover)
lowest resistance compared to other ship (1 turret and a mine sweeping system)
- landing ship : can carry tanks or cyborg but got nearly no weapon. (like all other transport)
- destroyer class : standard ship (2 turret)
- frigate class:
special ship for scouting and submarine countermeasure. (1 turret and a VTOL rearming pad accepting only assigned VTOL)
Got a greater sonar and radar range than other ship class.
- battleship class :
high cost, high resistance but the slowest ship. (good for holding key position)
Can be a battleship or a VTOL carrier (4 turret or rearming pad)

miscellanous

-anti ship mine and land mine. (to still give the hover an advantage )
- VTOL carried torpedo , floating sonar and anti submarine weaponry.
(for strike like the one at pearl harbour)
-resupply time and ship arsenal. (its to create some weakness for the high lev ships).
I can accept that ammo can be create in the future by converting energy and surrounding matter into organized matter like ammo or building. But sometime, the rate of fire can be too high that resupplying can be a problem on the long run.
For example, a battleship with 4 high rate of fire turret could become invincible if the arsenal dont run out sometime.
- decoy anti anti-decoy : in the middle of the campaign, the ships could be implemented with decoy. But the decoy can be used to divert a torpedo strike (not all can be diverted) and take a long time to be rearmed (longer than torpedo tube rearming to make it hard.)
First generation : can divert torpedoes (mk 2 and 3 increased jamming capacities and torpedoes numbers)
Second generation : can divert torpedoes in a way it will hit an enemy instead. (mk 2 and 3 increased torpedoes numbers and accuracy)

[Emdek]

There were similar ideas (for water only propulsions), and there is some naval propulsion already AFAIK.
Though I think that main issue is that we would need much bigger maps (with enough big water bodies) to play them effectively.

[Nameless]

There were similar ideas (for water only propulsions), and there is some naval propulsion already AFAIK.
Though I think that main issue is that we would need much bigger maps (with enough big water bodies) to play them effectively.

What s/he said. Another issue I could see happening is in the hierarchy of unit to terrain manipulation; as it stands, there IS no issue since all units are above or on 'top' of the terrain. With units that can be submerged and thus 'underneath' the terrain how would one keep the WZ world from blowing up (aka keep from rewriting that part of the engine)?

[aubergine]

It's already possible to have units beneath terrain - in fact a bug with cyborg transports on current 3.1 Beta 4 release sometimes causes borgs to appear underground when they first disembark the transport!

For things like submarines, I guess they would just use similar approach to VTOLs in that they'd stay a certain amount above ground level at all times, but only allowed to move in tiles that are X pixels below sea-level. Thus, if they entered shallower water, they'd actually start to surface, whereas in deep water they'd be fully submerged.

With some of the work Per has been doing on things like radar detectors and ECM recently, there is already code for "stealthing" units. So I guess submarines would want to have a radar jammer turret on them (but called sonar jammer) or something like that. And ships could have a new "sonar" turret that acts as a sensor but for stuff below sea level.

In the game, if you enable cheat mode (shift + backspace) then press Enter and enter the command "give all" then press Enter again, you'll see the naval ship propulsion appear in the droid design tool. You can create some ships designs and then use Ctrl+O to open the debug menu, choose "Units" button, find your ship design and place a few in water to see how they work.

One other thing with naval units is that it will likely take some reworking of the tech tree to get them in the game properly - you'd probably want ships before VTOLs or submarines are available for example. And there would probably have to be a naval factory as well, that has some ability to get it's units in to the water (so possibly it could be built half on water half on land, or have some sort of slide thing so completed units could slide out of the factory and in to the water).

Naval stuff will be awesome when fully implemented, but I imagine it's going to take quite a bit of time to achieve.

There's some pics on the forum I found the other day while browsing around, that show a bunch of naval units in action, but I can't find them now - anyone know where they are?

[RedShocktrooper]

I say just one or two seaborne propulsions (one for surface craft, the other for submersible), so that things can still use regular weapons (and perhaps variations on them - artillery mounted on surface warships can rotate, albeit slowly), and maybe a specialized "Warship Only" hull that can mount three turrets (shaped roughly like a WWII battleship) that's heavier than the Dragon and naval-only. So, for instance, x2 Groundshakers or Hellstorms for the main battery, and an anti-aircraft gun (Whirlwind, for instance) or cannon for secondary.

[Emdek]

Shipyard would be needed for sure.
I remember naval units (no submarines) from Earth 2150, though without proper maps (very large, with islands) they are no fun at all.

[aubergine]

Looks like there was already some attempt to get a shipyard done: viewtopic.php?f=33&t=5443&hilit=naval

I'm still searching for pics of ships in action. I really wish there was a way to search images in these forums heh.

[aubergine]

Found them!! viewtopic.php?f=6&t=1960

... and more! viewtopic.php?f=6&t=2022

More links with stuff regarding naval units (some of these might be duplicates - in a rush so not checked, dinner burning in oven... bbl):

* viewtopic.php?f=10&t=4699
* viewtopic.php?f=33&t=4909&start=0&hilit=boat+model
* viewtopic.php?f=6&t=1960
* viewtopic.php?f=6&t=1960&start=15#p18974
* viewtopic.php?f=6&t=2022
* viewtopic.php?f=6&t=2176
* viewtopic.php?f=33&t=5443#p56938
* download/file.php?id=6546&mode=view

[Emdek]

Ah, I've seen that earlier, I remember this image in thread.

[aubergine]

added some more links to my post above - gotta go rescue dinner - bbl

[Nameless]

...
In the game, if you enable cheat mode (shift + backspace) then press Enter and enter the command "give all" then press Enter again, you'll see the naval ship propulsion appear in the droid design tool. You can create some ships designs and then use Ctrl+O to open the debug menu, choose "Units" button, find your ship design and place a few in water to see how they work.
...

Nice! I just had a chance to see myself.

[aubergine]

zOMG check out the screenies on this page (and indeed the whole topic): viewtopic.php?f=6&t=2379&hilit=terrain+ ... g&start=45 <--- WANT!!!

[Shadow Wolf TJC]

I believe that one of the biggest obstacles to implementing naval units, even if we already have them working, is that we'd need to implement the ability to build structures on water (ala Command & Conquer: Red Alert 3).

[aubergine]

Or, instead of building structures on water, have some sort of launch shoot from the factory to the water that ships could slide down? This would then facilitate naval factories to be built on existing maps that might not otherwise have a sufficient plot of land next to the water.

[Emdek]

Shadow Wolf TJC, that was discussed elsewhere in the past, one of the ideas was to introduce island like platforms (could be neutral buildings to take over, but for me they should act like normal islands) to build on them.
Also, there should be simply islands made to use them, I don't see even real need for platforms except to make more variety on maps.