Who uses cannon-flak?

The place to discuss balance changes for future versions of the game.
(Master releases & 3.X)
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Does cannon-flak have good balance?

Poll runs till 30 Dec 2019, 00:12

Yes, I use it all the time!
0
No votes
No, I do not want to lose!
5
83%
What is a cannon-flak?
1
17%
 
Total votes: 6

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Berserk Cyborg
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Who uses cannon-flak?

Post by Berserk Cyborg » 30 Nov 2019, 00:12

Cannon-AA gets the short end of the stick when compared to all the other AA weapons. I suspect few players actually use it and the only ones who do are newbies who quickly learn it's almost a sure-fire way to lose against VTOLs. It's funny, really, because machinegun-AA requires cannon research far into the cannon line anyway (hurricane/whirlwind). And cannon+MG is not a bad combination to go with.

Cyp
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Re: Who uses cannon-flak?

Post by Cyp » 30 Nov 2019, 10:43

Hurricane requires twin MG and Whirlwind requires AG. I haven't noticed any of its upgrades depending on cannons at all.

I think the problem might be that AA (except for cannon FLAK) is way too strong in general, that almost nothing except dedicated AA can shoot at VTOLs, and that VTOL bombs and VTOL cannons are way too strong against structures.

A few VTOLs vs no AA = instant win (often, at least). A few tanks vs a player that spent research on AA = instant win (sometimes, at least).

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Berserk Cyborg
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Re: Who uses cannon-flak?

Post by Berserk Cyborg » 30 Nov 2019, 17:48

Cyp wrote:
30 Nov 2019, 10:43
Hurricane requires twin MG and Whirlwind requires AG. I haven't noticed any of its upgrades depending on cannons at all.
The weapons don't but the damage/ROF research do.

"R-Wpn-AAGun-Damage04" requires the seventh cannon damage research (HVAPFSDS Cannon Rounds).
"R-Wpn-AAGun-ROF04" requires the fourth cannon ROF research (cannon rapid loader).

The accuracy research depends on slow rocket accuracy and howitzer accuracy upgrades, though it might not matter much because they have a decent base accuracy to begin with.

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Re: Who uses cannon-flak?

Post by MIH-XTC » 30 Nov 2019, 19:49

AA cannon flak is not used at all in mp because hurricane is better, arrives earlier and is needed for whirlwind.

Initially it might sound good to remove non-intuitive dependencies between research items such as the cannon upgrades for AA ROF but then the unbalances of the game become more obvious because it’s easier to compare arrival times. For example, if all the types of technology were their own “swim lane” with no branching dependencies then it becomes really easy to estimate the arrival times and balances. In this sense cross-dependencies between certain technologies are helpful because it obscures arrival times and makes it harder to compare balances.

Balance mostly suffers from analysis paralysis due to infrequent release cycles. There haven’t been any significant balance changes in over 5 years and at this point any/some changes are better than none. Especially because the audience (customer base) is only a handful of people. If people don’t like balance changes then they can voice their opinion on the forums and incremental adjustments can be made for the next release. As things are now, there is a lot of discussion but nothing ever comes of it.

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Iluvalar
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Re: Who uses cannon-flak?

Post by Iluvalar » Yesterday, 01:59

no hvc is better, if you are really stuck in the cannon branch, you convert everything to hvc. Vtols should be available from start and be weak. instead we have a late tech propulsion that need to be oppressive because of that.
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