Unit designer limit

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MaNGusT
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Unit designer limit

Post by MaNGusT » 21 May 2019, 09:43

I post here because my idea probably touches balance stuff.
Currently a player can design a unit as he want just by combining different techs. Some combinations look really stupid/funny. As an artist I don't want too see such things in game. The game must be stylish in all visual aspects.
I suggest "virtually" split weapons techs on light/medium/heavy types as it's done for bodies and then allow a player use them this way:
-Light bodies can hold only light weapons
-Medium bodies can hold light and medium weapons
-Heavy bodies can hold any weapons

It will not probably change much but will forbid players to make units like bug+heavy cannon or viper + archangel missiles etc. I think that WZ is not like Spore game to allow such funny things. Any thoughts? :-)
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Re: Unit designer limit

Post by ThinkSome » 21 May 2019, 18:57

Is dragon tracks machinegun not a silly combination?

Btw would you be interested in porting wz to the Spring engine? I.e. producing much more higher quality artwork?

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Re: Unit designer limit

Post by pastdue » 21 May 2019, 19:32

I'm encouraged by all of the folks interested in and focused on making WZ the best it can be.

There are many recent new contributions and contributors that have popped up (now that more has been moved over to GitHub), with useful fixes, patches, and improvements!

I think you'll be quite happy with what's coming in the future - especially some graphics improvements that MaNGusT and inodlite have worked on. And they should be able to be enjoyed on all of the platforms that WZ supports (which includes several platforms that Spring does not support).

----

On the matter of the original purpose of this thread - might be worth making a poll, MaNGusT? I don't know how common such combinations might be.

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MaNGusT
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Re: Unit designer limit

Post by MaNGusT » 21 May 2019, 20:25

ThinkSome wrote:
21 May 2019, 18:57
Is dragon tracks machinegun not a silly combination?
I don't like design of both super-heavy bodies. So now I talk only about units available in campaign.

Btw would you be interested in porting wz to the Spring engine? I.e. producing much more higher quality artwork?
nope, I have enough ideas to implement here and not enough time to do them.

pastdue wrote:
21 May 2019, 19:32
might be worth making a poll, MaNGusT?
Yeah, may be later. Just wanted to know what guys think about it but not yes/no answers.
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Re: Unit designer limit

Post by ThinkSome » 21 May 2019, 23:43

pastdue wrote:
21 May 2019, 19:32

I think you'll be quite happy with what's coming in the future - especially some graphics improvements that MaNGusT and inodlite have worked on. And they should be able to be enjoyed on all of the platforms that WZ supports (which includes several platforms that Spring does not support).
I am simply looking for people interested in helping out with porting WZ to Spring. Will those fixes include mid-game reconnect, so I am no longer labeled as a quitter due to my mobile internet? (Note that I do not particularly care about WZ supporting my fridge's or toaster's embedded computer, even though WZ's graphics may look impressive on their tiny screens. It is just not the right setup for playing 3D games in 2019.)

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Re: Unit designer limit

Post by Berg » 21 May 2019, 23:49

Many employ strange combinations for example twin assault gun tracked bugs is a favourite.
By restricting the Ugly effect this would remove this tactic.
Just one example of many used.
I know what mangust is saying .

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Re: Unit designer limit

Post by Iluvalar » 22 May 2019, 01:33

On a balance point of view, every weapons are heavy. The only exception is the smg and tmg, but those 2 are obsolete before you get any body.

Preventing them from mounting on an heavy body would be a huge nerf on any of those weapons. It imply a lot of changes in the game for this to be feasible.
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Re: Unit designer limit

Post by MaNGusT » 22 May 2019, 06:17

Iluvalar wrote:
22 May 2019, 01:33
Preventing them from mounting on an heavy body would be a huge nerf on any of those weapons. It imply a lot of changes in the game for this to be feasible.
I think, you got my idea in a wrong way. :)
-Heavy bodies can hold any weapons
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Re: Unit designer limit

Post by xNEXTx » 22 May 2019, 22:21

I'm against it.
Warzone is a unique game due to the huge number of design units. Yes, I agree that some may look wrong, but if they are used then they are useful.
Making restrictions even minor you can break the deep system, which proved to be on the good side.
Do not forget that if you do not like this unit, it does not mean that it should not be.
If you make restrictions, then everyone will play the same units - this is bad.

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Re: Unit designer limit

Post by MaNGusT » 23 May 2019, 11:12

xNEXTx wrote:
22 May 2019, 22:21
If you make restrictions, then everyone will play the same units - this is bad.
I saw games from ru tournaments with skilled players - everyone use same tactics, same unit combinations and these combinations are not in restriction list.
Skilled players always use only most balanced/powerful combinations to counter an enemy coz they know what works well. New players just confused by a lot of ways they could go in game. This will make their competitive life a bit easier.
I didn't see matches where people used very inefficient and silly combinations like the one Berg mentioned above but I agree that there always be people that say "I like it and I don't care how does it look".
The question is how to split weapons right to satisfy needs of most of players. Especially mid-game weapons that often used with medium bodies.
Btw, It's just an idea, if people like that wz looks like sh*t and scares new players, it's their right. :)
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Re: Unit designer limit

Post by xNEXTx » 23 May 2019, 12:16

I just don't understand why go and change a system that's been working fine for years.
And beginners can get confused in anything, the meaning of the game is a huge selection of actions, not a game on standard templates.
I agree, that many good players play conflate units, but there is options units which, too, have the right on life. Although they do not look effective, but with proper tactics, you can win trucks))
If the unit is ineffective, the player will not use it.
I've been playing multiplayer for a year and I know what I'm talking about.
That's just my opinion.
But the theme for this was to find out people's opinions :)

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Re: Unit designer limit

Post by Berg » 23 May 2019, 12:26

xNEXTx wrote:
23 May 2019, 12:16
But the theme for this was to find out people's opinions :)
My opinion is to not change things that don't need changing because one person get an urge.
There are many combinations used by many players and to counter an attack or to use as offensive army it makes the game un- predictable and that is the charm of warzone.
I sorry mangust to change because it baulks your eye is not a reason to stop players having advantages over others.
Over the years its a highlight to see the different combinations used and some are fantastic counters or attack methods and we see mega warz that just go on and on because of this people adapting to the changing tactics.
if the units look funny change the models to suit but don't change how they are combined.

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Re: Unit designer limit

Post by Cyp » 23 May 2019, 13:17

I wonder if large bodies should be more expensive or small bodies stronger, so people don't just pick the largest possible bodies most of the time.

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Re: Unit designer limit

Post by MaNGusT » 23 May 2019, 14:00

Cyp wrote:
23 May 2019, 13:17
I wonder if large bodies should be more expensive or small bodies stronger, so people don't just pick the largest possible bodies most of the time.
I think original wz's designers here played on default kid's logic "than bigger - then stronger".
Berg wrote:
23 May 2019, 12:26
if the units look funny change the models to suit
it'll be very hard(due to its number) to change or revamp design of weapons to accommodate to design of all bodies and save their unique in-game style. To remake bodies or mb just change their scale instead of revamping all weapons we will have to argue changes to stuff people is used to. People is used to logic - small body is very fast but weak, heavy body has good armor for long fights but the slowest one.
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Re: Unit designer limit

Post by Berg » 23 May 2019, 23:47

MaNGusT wrote:
23 May 2019, 14:00
To remake bodies or mb just change their scale instead of revamping all weapons we will have to argue changes to stuff people is used to
People are used to many odd quirks about warzone thats why its such a good game
MaNGusT wrote:
23 May 2019, 14:00
People is used to logic -
There is very little logic to using a weak body with a high powered weapon but players love these strange combinations

Its like putting a anti aircraft gun on a small truck.

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