Why is warzone now such a s*t?

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moltengear
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Re: Why is warzone now such a s*t?

Post by moltengear » 04 Dec 2018, 11:55

NoQ wrote:
19 Aug 2018, 18:59
Some players feel cheated.
Cheating has been pretty much eliminated since 3.1 by introducing the new synchronous network engine. Every unexpected change in the game state on one of the machines, including visibility cheating, would expose itself as a desync warning (which immediately indicates who cheats, even if it's the host, but doesn't affect the rest of the game for honest players) due to units picking different targets on different machines. It should still be possible to hack the remote game client into believing in the hacked game state, but there's pretty much no reason for people who are capable of this to target us, we're just too small and too non-evil and too cross-platform for a single low-level exploit to work reliably. Modded maps are now highlighted, and it is trivial to explore the contents of the map archive to find if it severely favors the host even during the game when you suspect that the map itself is unfair or that it contains modified stats or game rule scripts.

Most of the people who "feel cheated" simply don't know how to play and spend all game building walls in the middle of their base and then claim that they lose because their opponent is cheating. We can't do anything about it other than what i'm doing now: explaining that they are noobs crybabies wrong. And this has been explained dozens of times.
Many thanks for the work done against cheating in multiplayer!
And yet there are good reasons to suspect cheating. And the second problem. Also I agree. I can open the whole map at the level of graphic api.
An open card gives an advantage in unexpected raids. I took out so many players from the game without an open map.
But what will happen if I have a map opened at the start?
We really need support for recording games. Playback file in json format. This is very important for the development of the graphics engine.
Vincent talked about this already. It seems we have lost a good developer for the graphic part. He no longer writes.

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Berg
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Re: Why is warzone now such a s*t?

Post by Berg » 05 Dec 2018, 02:38

moltengear wrote:
04 Dec 2018, 11:55
Vincent talked about this already. It seems we have lost a good developer for the graphic part. He no longer writes.
Many Devs come on with massive energy and after a time they leave its human nature don’t blame the project for lost interest moltengear.

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moltengear
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Re: Why is warzone now such a s*t?

Post by moltengear » 05 Dec 2018, 11:48

Berg wrote:
05 Dec 2018, 02:38
moltengear wrote:
04 Dec 2018, 11:55
Vincent talked about this already. It seems we have lost a good developer for the graphic part. He no longer writes.
Many Devs come on with massive energy and after a time they leave its human nature don’t blame the project for lost interest moltengear.
I think that the non-modular structure of the project, as well as the lack of detailed documentation, will kill the desire of any good developer.
But if they have found something better, then we should be glad for them. :wink:

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Re: Why is warzone now such a s*t?

Post by andrvaut » 05 Dec 2018, 12:45

I would like to return to the main theme of this topic.
Players need a release. To offer to play a very unstable version (3.2.3) is not humane. Phobos statistics show that the proportion of games in version 3.2.3 has again become less than half.

Starting with a scavengers - desink
Transfer of units to NTV - desink
Someone plays from the fire and opened the termites - desink
Successfully complete the game a little chance.

What problems in the master version do not allow the release candidate?
The critical problems indicated by Berserk Cyborg are almost all solved.
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Re: Why is warzone now such a s*t?

Post by moltengear » 05 Dec 2018, 18:29

The fact that serious changes are largely for developers, not for the players.
Convertion of the native convoluted script into javascript make it possible to create a missions for new campaign.
In order to at least make a good version for the players, we need 4 things.
wz_spectators_menu2.jpg
Add checkbox for
1) 3.1.5 mode
2) open map at start
And
3) make a column for viewers
4) Ability to remove the new tower.
Connection for spectators.png
Connection for spectators.png (31.52 KiB) Viewed 1514 times
We can first do crutches to support viewers using existing code. Data transfer optimization will be in the next version. Something like that.

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Re: Why is warzone now such a s*t?

Post by andrvaut » 05 Dec 2018, 18:53

I agree that these features will be helpful. Moreover, I really want to see some of them (1,4).

But I still want to stop seeing the recommendation to play 3.2.3 version.
The release with the work already done will be very useful. We will stop losing players due to frequent desinks, bugs in the campaign, incompatibility with video cards and even low FPS
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Re: Why is warzone now such a s*t?

Post by Berserk Cyborg » 06 Dec 2018, 04:59

andrvaut wrote: I would like to return to the main theme of this topic.
Players need a release. To offer to play a very unstable version (3.2.3) is not humane. Phobos statistics show that the proportion of games in version 3.2.3 has again become less than half.
...
What problems in the master version do not allow the release candidate?
The critical problems indicated by Berserk Cyborg are almost all solved.
Don't worry, it will be very soon. Pastdue has a few build/cmake related improvements to finish (very important pull-requests from pastdue got merged into vcpkg). Forgon alluded to having a number of GUI fixes to test before next release. And I am content with the completion of my previous list here, and that one mod ticket isn't stopping a release. There are some campaign related issues I want to address, but I'll wait until the release to think about pushing anything in fear of causing some unforeseen catastrophe.

Edit:
I'm skeptical if anything can be done to improve some areas like GUI, actions/order, commanders (10+ tickets), templates, messages, etc. The real issue is that they have reached the realm of no return and are more difficult to maintain, let alone understand, than worth putting effort into fixing.

The spaghetti magic (or poor design like Cyp wrote) has won the war. And the only way forward is to go all out scorched-Earth on them. What this means, I don't know, but it likely entails drastic changes and effort (inb4 drama). :ninja:

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Berg
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Re: Why is warzone now such a s*t?

Post by Berg » 06 Dec 2018, 08:28

I think this release will be make or brake warzone the community is patient but another bad release might not go down well so lets not change anything drastic before release

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Re: Why is warzone now such a s*t?

Post by Lord_Kane » 07 Dec 2018, 05:22

Berg wrote:
06 Dec 2018, 08:28
I think this release will be make or brake warzone the community is patient but another bad release might not go down well so lets not change anything drastic before release
I agree with Berg here, another poor release like 3.2 and 3.2.2 is going to just shatter the community even more, but there are still issues to solved like pursuit orders etc, but hopefully those can be addressed in the future.

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Re: Why is warzone now such a s*t?

Post by andrvaut » 18 Jan 2019, 12:37

Can you share details, what other problems do not allow to make a release?
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Re: warzone great again!!!

Post by andrvaut » 06 Mar 2019, 13:09

With some delay I want to thank everyone who worked on 3.3.0.
The new version can be played without fear of bugs. This is a great achievement.
The only thing that upsets me is the inertia of many hosts.
There are still a lot of rooms in 3.2.3. Please do not use this version for the game.

Of the problems that remained from previous versions, I want to note.
1) mods in multiplayer, they still do not work at all.
2) balance. Playing missiles now is a sure way to lose. I would very much like to be able to return the balance from 3.1.5 to the mod. (This requires the support of an old or compatible accuracy model)

I would also very much like to see the modified possibility of changing the card in the created room.
My opinion, the vulnerability was far-fetched. Maps loading speed is low and it is difficult to take at least some space. But she really enhanced the user experience.
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Re: warzone great again!!!

Post by Forgon » 06 Mar 2019, 21:38

andrvaut wrote:
06 Mar 2019, 13:09
With some delay I want to thank everyone who worked on 3.3.0.
The new version can be played without fear of bugs. This is a great achievement.
The only thing that upsets me is the inertia of many hosts.
There are still a lot of rooms in 3.2.3. Please do not use this version for the game.
I am glad someone liked the new release. It is certainly better than 3.2.3.
According to Prot's statistics, only about 10-15% of games are currently played
with the new Beta version. Hopefully, this situation will improve.
andrvaut wrote:
06 Mar 2019, 13:09
Of the problems that remained from previous versions, I want to note.
1) mods in multiplayer, they still do not work at all.
In most cases, multiplayer mods are undesirable, since players cannot easily
check what they are doing. More detailed game settings in the host screen could
probably mitigate this situation, e.g. with an option to cleanly disable all
artillery pieces.
andrvaut wrote:
06 Mar 2019, 13:09
2) balance. Playing missiles now is a sure way to lose. I would very much like to be able to return the balance from 3.1.5 to the mod. (This requires the support of an old or compatible accuracy model)
This is always a touchy subject, but I generally agree with you.
I have started by
suggesting to buff the Bunker Buster's ROF
.
A detailed proposal would be welcome. MIH-XTC had a lot of ideas, but his EB mod
changed a lot of things besides balance, and seems to have petered out.
andrvaut wrote:
06 Mar 2019, 13:09
I would also very much like to see the modified possibility of changing the card in the created room.
My opinion, the vulnerability was far-fetched. Maps loading speed is low and it is difficult to take at least some space. But she really enhanced the user experience.
Has been noted. The change should get a second chance, after ensuring that it
works as it is supposed to.

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Re: Why is warzone now such a s*t?

Post by ThinkSome » 06 Mar 2019, 21:54

I'd like to file my opinion that spectators will make the game worse and the games less frequent. I am requesting for this option to never be implemented.

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Re: warzone great again!!!

Post by andrvaut » 06 Mar 2019, 23:30

Forgon wrote:
06 Mar 2019, 21:38
andrvaut wrote:
06 Mar 2019, 13:09
Of the problems that remained from previous versions, I want to note.
1) mods in multiplayer, they still do not work at all.
In most cases, multiplayer mods are undesirable, since players cannot easily
check what they are doing. More detailed game settings in the host screen could
probably mitigate this situation, e.g. with an option to cleanly disable all
artillery pieces.
There are some problems with mods, but no more than with not symmetrical maps.
Mods are required for some things: observers, graphic tweaks, AI, and running changes in the balance.
Now all this is possible only by creating a map-mod. Which is not very convenient.
In 3.2.x, a mechanism for downloading a mod from the host has been added, but it is broken. #4789
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Berg
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Re: Why is warzone now such a s*t?

Post by Berg » 07 Mar 2019, 10:46

Why disable arty go back to rebalance and have many games to tune it not just change something and hope for the best.

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