Help needed testing 3.2.x Campaign games!

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Berserk Cyborg
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Re: Help needed testing 3.2.x Campaign games!

Post by Berserk Cyborg » 30 Jun 2018, 21:24

Take a break in those situations. Otherwise it will compound and annoy you even more the longer whatever it is keeps happening.

AI unit attack orders will choose the closest thing to them most of the time. Move your mortars to the east and away from the north valley, if playing on insane.

The whole idea of Alpha 5 is to be overwhelmingly out-gunned and not ready for this new mysterious enemy. This is no walk in the park anymore, these guys mean business, and the Project better adapt, fast. The player needs to tough it out on this mission. No way around it. The Project just don't have anything to match this enemy at all. At least, until they steal their technology to even the odds.

Remember that the Project has only been using their weapons against a less than professional army of weakly armored scavenger vehicles, not strongly armored vehicles. Where as before you are shooting at a fire-truck or school bus, at best. Scavenger vehicles can not compare to any of the medium/heavy bodies at all.

Then the Project gets advanced repair bays, increased maufacturing technology, commanders, the versatile and stronger Cobra body, hardcrete, bunkers... by Alpha 6 the Project is pretty much unstoppable. And then the Project invents the lancer, the ultimate armor piercing weapon for quite a while, invent the bunker-buster, an extension of the lancer branch, which forever remains one of the best anti-structure weapon, and start getting the more powerful cannons.

The flamer in its current form is as good as it will get. Given its ROF, any more damage and it'll be old assault gun territory. About the best I can compromise is to create an anti-tank flamer designed for vehicles and act as the opposite of current flamer: slow ROF, heavy, and lots of damage at once. A "flame1mk2" stat if you will.

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Re: Help needed testing 3.2.x Campaign games!

Post by alfred007 » 30 Jun 2018, 23:43

Bethrezen wrote:The difference though is that I'm not using stupid amounts of mobile repair units I only use 2 with each squad.
So instead of using a stupid amount of repair units, you are using a stupid amount of combat units. Makes sense ;)
Bethrezen wrote:More over the computer kept overriding my orders and my mortars keep charging in to enemy fire and getting destroyed when I tried setting them on guard to control the scav's because they wont obey the hold order when there attached to a scanner which is bloody irritating even more irritatingly for some reason the new paradigm reinforcements that come in from off screen kept ignore the units attacking there base and kept going after my mortars which is kind of odd, one would assume the new paradigm reinforcements would go after the units attacking there base but noooo the computer has to be awkward so the combination of those 3 things effectively renders mortars completely useless on alpha 5
I'm a little bit surprised because of your problems with mortars. I set my mortars to "Do-or-Die" and "Hold-Fire", my sensor units to "Do-or-Die" and "Fire-at -will". I don't use the guard or hold order but just place the sensor at the place I want him, move the mortars a few tiles behind him and then attach them to the sensor. If I want a special order of the targets that the sensor should attack I set him also to "Hold-Fire" and select the targets manually. At the picture below you see the mortars and the sensor I used to control the newly produced scavengers of the southern base. And they didn't move until I gave them the order to move. But you're right, with the old hold order the mortars were easier to control. The current hold order is no help to control mortars.
wz2100-20180630_230427-SUB_1_3.png
The reason why I use mortars instead of light cannon units is that I want to gain more experience. When light cannons destroy an enemy unit I get one point of experience. If I use mortars I get one point for the mortar and one more for the sensor like it is when you attach units to a commander. And to protect my sensor I place some repair units between the sensor and the NP units. This is war and all's fair in love and war. You have the weaker weapons and your units are weaker armoured in comparison to the NP, so you have to use every advantage you have. Either using a lot of repair units or using a lot of combat units. I don't agree that mortars are useless in alpha 05. I mainly used mortars to win the level and only 10 half-tracked light cannon units to control the ground reinforcements.

Farther, before I started my attack at the middle scavenger base I destroyed the newly produced units for five minutes with my mortars to gain more experience. So if I would have only used four minutes to gain experience I would have researched everything until the end of the level. So the livel timer is ok for me.

Last but not least the question is: Do you want any changes for alpha 05 or can we move forward to alpha 06?

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Re: Help needed testing 3.2.x Campaign games!

Post by Rocksteady » 20 Jul 2018, 00:26

Hey guys I've finished the campaign 50+ times, what can I do to help?

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Re: Help needed testing 3.2.x Campaign games!

Post by Bethrezen » 20 Jul 2018, 15:27

Take a break in those situations. Otherwise it will compound and annoy you even more the longer whatever it is keeps happening.
Yeah that's what I have been doing
The whole idea of Alpha 5 is to be overwhelmingly out-gunned and not ready for this new mysterious enemy. This is no walk in the park anymore, these guys mean business, and the Project better adapt, fast. The player needs to tough it out on this mission. No way around it. The Project just don't have anything to match this enemy at all. At least, until they steal their technology to even the odds.
True enough
I'm a little bit surprised because of your problems with mortars.
It may well be that my issues with the mortars are due to the fact they can see my units, because in the pic you posted it looks like you have already destroyed the sensor tower by the new scav base when I attempted this last I had my units further back and hadn’t destroyed the sensor tower so that might explain why I'm having issues.

With regards to my mortars charging forward and getting shot up that maybe caused by a combo of factors

Firstly the rally point for the scav factory is in a bit of an odd location

Image

So of course because my units are a bit further back due to not destroying the sensor tower when the sensor tags a unit the mortars can't quiet reach so go running forward incorrectly because the hold command doesn't work right properly, so I can at least explain why that is happening

Although that doesn't explain why the NP units coming in from off screen are going after my mortars and ignoring the units attacking there base, if there target selection is based on what they can see and what is closest to them so there is something a bit funny going on there, what I think I'll try and do is to try and set up the problems again and then do a bit of video capture so you can get a better sense of what I'm seeing.
Last but not least the question is: Do you want any changes for alpha 05 or can we move forward to alpha 06?
With regards to change for alpha 05 I would perhaps adjust the composition of the off screen reinforcements and remove the medium tanks but maybe add a few more lighter units to compensate, to make that a little bit more straightforward to deal with because them medium tanks are a real pain the backside and I think it's probably enough to have them build them from there factory what you could perhaps do though is maybe slightly adjust the rate at which the factory builds medium tanks if you want them to have a few more medium tanks.

Second since the computer seems to have a fetish for my mobile repair units I'd maybe increase there health / armour a bit because against the New Paradigm they are to lightly armoured and to easy to destroy, also currently mobile repair units will only repair them selves when they are set to hold I would perhaps experiment with making them repair them selves as soon as they get damaged regardless of what stance they are currently in this might help to make them a bit more resilient and it's more consistent with the way similar units work in other RTS games

I would also perhaps move the rally point for the scav factory to

Image
Hey guys I've finished the campaign 50+ times, what can I do to help?
just download the mod load it up and play it reporting any problems you encounter or if you have any suggestions for adjustments then post them, also be aware we are currently working on insane difficulty we'll give the other difficulty levels the once over to make sure changes we have made for insane don't make the easier difficulty levels to difficult later on, also if you have any coding ability then there are various ways you can help such as writing patches to fix bugs for example.

Currently since the latest masters wont work on XP or at least they didn't last time I checked it makes bug testing difficult so while i wait for the XP issue to be sorted out we are doing some balancing work for alpha campaign since the majority of bugs have already been fixed for alpha campaign baring anything that we have missed or rare bugs that only happen under specific circumstances.

With regards to the balance mod we are currently up to alpha 5 with the mod and getting set to move on to alpha 06.

[edit]
Also since the hold issues is irritating people it might be an idea to have a look at the code for that and see about getting that put back the way it was, because this new hold command sucks it doesn't work properly and isn't any where near as good as what was there before.

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Re: Help needed testing 3.2.x Campaign games!

Post by alfred007 » 21 Jul 2018, 18:51

Bethrezen wrote: ...it looks like you have already destroyed the sensor tower by the new scav base...
That's right.

Bethrezen wrote:With regards to change for alpha 05 I would perhaps adjust the composition of the off screen reinforcements and remove the medium tanks but maybe add a few more lighter units to compensate, to make that a little bit more straightforward to deal with because them medium tanks are a real pain the backside and I think it's probably enough to have them build them from there factory what you could perhaps do though is maybe slightly adjust the rate at which the factory builds medium tanks if you want them to have a few more medium tanks.
The ground reinforcements are only coming with insane difficulty and I think a player that is experienced enough to play insane difficulty should be able to compete with these reinforcements. If you would also bring them in with normal or hard difficulty I would agree with you, but not when they only coming with insane difficulty.

Bethrezen wrote:I would also perhaps move the rally point for the scav factory to
Image
That's a good idea.
Bethrezen wrote:Also since the hold issues is irritating people it might be an idea to have a look at the code for that and see about getting that put back the way it was, because this new hold command sucks it doesn't work properly and isn't any where near as good as what was there before.
Ticket #4303 is assigned to Forgon, so you have to ask him what he's doing with the code.

Rocksteady wrote:Hey guys I've finished the campaign 50+ times, what can I do to help?
Download the latest master version from here (take the portable build) and the latest balance mod from here. Then put the balance mod in the autoload folder of the mod folder of the master version and start a new alpha campaign with insane difficulty. Take care, insane difficulty deserves this name. And then tell us in this forum what do you think about the changes we made so far and also tell us if you have any ideas for balancing.

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Re: Help needed testing 3.2.x Campaign games!

Post by WZ2100ModsFAn » 23 Jul 2018, 20:30

What's this new flamer guard tower in arizona 1?

the scavs are now way hard on nomal difficulty.
Apologies if i dont see your post
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Re: Help needed testing 3.2.x Campaign games!

Post by alfred007 » 23 Jul 2018, 21:07

WZ2100ModsFAn wrote:What's this new flamer guard tower in arizona 1?

the scavs are now way hard on nomal difficulty.
The scavengers were too weak with the old balance. So we made them a bit harder. If you are careful enough it's still possible to enter the last scavenger base without losing any units. Bethrezen, Berserk Cyborg and I did it with insane difficulty, so you should be able to do it with normal difficulty. It's the same as your posts. First think, then act. A little hint: Research the repair artifact and use some repair units.
And a general hint: Use the time to research everything. It's not a good idea to rush forward before all artifacts are researched. And use the better technologies you will find.

Alpha 03 is also way harder. We added some new structures and a new scavenger factory. Good luck.

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Re: Help needed testing 3.2.x Campaign games!

Post by Berserk Cyborg » 23 Jul 2018, 22:27

Moved the scavenger factory assembly. I think that all light-body reinforcements are potentially more dangerous to a player cause they can rush right up to your units and pick of any one unit faster than the medium-cannon units can despite they won't live as long... if that makes sense. I included that behavior in this mod.
WZ2100ModsFan wrote: What's this new flamer guard tower in arizona 1?
... A new defense structure with a mounted flamer.
Bethrezen wrote: Although that doesn't explain why the NP units coming in from off screen are going after my mortars and ignoring the units attacking there base, if there target selection is based on what they can see and what is closest to them so there is something a bit funny going on there, what I think I'll try and do is to try and set up the problems again and then do a bit of video capture so you can get a better sense of what I'm seeing.
They know wherever the closest player unit and structure are. I wonder what the implications would be if we switched it to check what the AI player can actually see, and if nothing, just cheat like it always has.

Note: Saves on the latest master might not be safe right now (#4815).
camBalance.wz
(110.43 KiB) Downloaded 45 times

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Re: Help needed testing 3.2.x Campaign games!

Post by WZ2100ModsFAn » 24 Jul 2018, 18:27

What is the estimated size of the cambalance.wz once all the campaigns have been done?
WZlog-0724_113357.txt
My log for playing the campaign
(130 Bytes) Downloaded 40 times
sorry for the long post the images are too big.

also some great work i put a lot of machine guns to take down the scavs before starting the mission.

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then once i had 12 machine guns i sent the trucks to build the first derrick for some power.

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then i sent the machineguns to attack.

went north to attack the scav derrick area then built another derrick.

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next i went and attacked the scavenger base all the way north and took them down.

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lastly i attacked the north west base of the scavs and lost all of my machine guns.

and used all of my power.

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i got it back and finished the north west base then went south and took down the last base.

Image

sorry for the long post the images are too big.
WZlog-0724_113357.txt
My log for playing the campaign
(130 Bytes) Downloaded 40 times
Apologies if i dont see your post
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Re: Help needed testing 3.2.x Campaign games!

Post by alfred007 » 24 Jul 2018, 19:58

WZ2100ModsFAn wrote:also some great work i put a lot of machine guns to take down the scavs before starting the mission.

then once i had 12 machine guns i sent the trucks to build the first derrick for some power.

then i sent the machineguns to attack.

went north to attack the scav derrick area then built another derrick.

next i went and attacked the scavenger base all the way north and took them down.

lastly i attacked the north west base of the scavs and lost all of my machine guns.

and used all of my power.
It looks like you ignored my hint to use repair units.
Set your units to retreat at red health. As soon as one of your initial units retreat to the base produce a new one. Or recycle it and then produce a new one. But avoid losing units. It's a waste of power and experience. In the northeastern scav base destroy the factory, the oil derrick and the mg towers but not the power generator. Take the time to research the repair artifact and produce some repair units. Then destroy the power generator. When you attack the northwestern base use two groups of combat units. Find out for yourself how big the groups have to be. Attack with the first group until the first unit is damaged to red health, retreat this group and move them to your repair units. In the meantime, attack the base with your second combat group and retreat them when the first unit is damaged to red health. During your second attack, the first group is repaired and can run the third attack. And so on. Attack, retreat, repair, repeat. Until the northwestern base is destroyed. And then use the same tactic for the last base. Let the power generator alive so you have the time to move your combat units to the way south for alpha 02. And after you have researched everything, destroy the power generator.

And once again: Avoid losing units!!!

As you saw, you will even lose alpha 01 if you don't care about your units. And you will have even less chance in the later levels if you don't learn to repair your units. Take the time to research everything before you move forward to the next level and use the researched technologies. With your impatient rush, you will not be successful.

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Re: Help needed testing 3.2.x Campaign games!

Post by WZ2100ModsFAn » 24 Jul 2018, 20:01

alfred007 wrote:
WZ2100ModsFAn wrote:also some great work i put a lot of machine guns to take down the scavs before starting the mission.

then once i had 12 machine guns i sent the trucks to build the first derrick for some power.

then i sent the machineguns to attack.

went north to attack the scav derrick area then built another derrick.

next i went and attacked the scavenger base all the way north and took them down.

lastly i attacked the north west base of the scavs and lost all of my machine guns.

and used all of my power.
It looks like you ignored my hint to use repair units.
Set your units to retreat at red health. As soon as one of your initial units retreat to the base produce a new one. Or recycle it and then produce a new one. But avoid losing units. It's a waste of power and experience. In the northeastern scav base destroy the factory, the oil derrick and the mg towers but not the power generator. Take the time to research the repair artifact and produce some repair units. Then destroy the power generator. When you attack the northwestern base use two groups of combat units. Find out for yourself how big the groups have to be. Attack with the first group until the first unit is damaged to red health, retreat this group and move them to your repair units. In the meantime, attack the base with your second combat group and retreat them when the first unit is damaged to red health. During your second attack, the first group is repaired and can run the third attack. And so on. Attack, retreat, repair, repeat. Until the northwestern base is destroyed. And then use the same tactic for the last base. Let the power generator alive so you have the time to move your combat units to the way south for alpha 02. And after you have researched everything, destroy the power generator.

And once again: Avoid losing units!!!

As you saw, you will even lose alpha 01 if you don't care about your units. And you will have even less chance in the later levels if you don't learn to repair your units. Take the time to research everything before you move forward to the next level and use the researched technologies. With your impatient rush, you will not be successful.
i can do the stop and researching before going on to second base.

red health is bad idea as the scavs can take you down before you make it.

and build repair units i will try again so i have a better advantage of taking them down.

should i aim for the neutral stuff before attacking everything else?

i've watched erinyes warzone 2100 gameplay on youtube.

so i am going to get more experience for more attack damage.

okay so my change of strategy isn't working out very well

i don't got much power all of my units almost ran out of health again.

i'll do it on easy instead

i was already on easy and the begginning was that hard...

i'll wait until the campaign is complete.
Apologies if i dont see your post
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Re: Help needed testing 3.2.x Campaign games!

Post by alfred007 » 24 Jul 2018, 20:45

WZ2100ModsFan wrote:red health is bad idea as the scavs can take you down before you make it.
In alpha 01 you can do it. In the later levels, it's better to set them to retreat at medium damage. Press F9 to display always the health bar of your units. Then you can see how much your units are damaged and you can retreat your units yourself in time.
WZ2100ModsFan wrote:should i aim for the neutral stuff before attacking everything else?
It's always a good idea to destroy the neutral stuff by your unit's because they gain experience by doing that. And you will need experienced units if you want to survive the tougher levels. First, destroy the mg towers and the factory so that your units can't be longer destroyed. Then go for the walls and the oil derrick. Last, destroy the power generator. And with your new experience find your own way with the upcoming levels. It's a good idea to watch how other players solved the levels. But make your own thoughts how you could play the level.
WZ2100ModsFan wrote:i've watched erinyes warzone 2100 gameplay on youtube.
There is not only erinyes on youtoube. Search for warzone 2100 playthrough or warzone 2100 walkthrough and you will find some more. Maybe you will find there some ideas for your gameplay.

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Re: Help needed testing 3.2.x Campaign games!

Post by alfred007 » 25 Jul 2018, 20:52

WZ2100ModsFan wrote:okay so my change of strategy isn't working out very well

i don't got much power all of my units almost ran out of health again.

i'll do it on easy instead

i was already on easy and the begginning was that hard...

i'll wait until the campaign is complete.
You shouldn't give up so fast. Train your ability to move your units without losing one. You will need this in the later levels. One trick is to have your units in motion. If they stand in front of enemy weapons the fire get's concentrated on one of your units. When you move, other units are moving in the way and instead that one unit receives all the dealt damage the damaged is spread over several units. And you can slow down the game speed so that you have more time for your manoeuvres. You will only get better when you train more.

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Re: Help needed testing 3.2.x Campaign games!

Post by AndrewTheOnly » 26 Jul 2018, 07:06

I was wondering, do these changes that are happening in campaign, like balance changes, new structures, etc... will also apply to multiplayer?

And also, WZ2100ModsFan, you need to actually spend your time now in alpha 1, it can't be speedrunned in like 3 minutes or so like it used to do. I sugest doing what Alfred said, but instead put your units to retreat at medium health, red health is kinda risky. Use repair units to repair your medium health tanks. Oh, and use flamers, because they are op in campaign if you didn't notice. They now have incredible range.

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Re: Help needed testing 3.2.x Campaign games!

Post by WZ2100ModsFAn » 26 Jul 2018, 15:35

Sorry for the long reply.

I will try again on campaign.
Apologies if i dont see your post
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