Engine upgrades (researches) weight/speed system

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Engine upgrades (researches) weight/speed system

Postby Reg312 » 23 Apr 2012, 15:05

Engine upgrades (researches)

this topis about making engine upgrades, engine power and weight of designs more valuable in game

engine upgrades overview
1) each engine upgrade increases power of engine of each unit(tank, cyborg, vtol) by 5%
BUT this does not affect most units, because most units already have their maximum speed and cannot move faster
2) also we research engine upgrages to get following things:
- power module / mini-rockets
- hover propulsion
- vtol propulsion
- mantis body
we dont use engine upgrade to make units faster, because given effect very low
3) engine upgrades increase speed only for heavy weight tanks

Problem: engine upgrade does not make tanks visible faster
engine upgrade does not used to make units faster because 5% of engine power is very small addition
in Inluvalar's NRS mod engine upgrades actually increase speed of all units and it gives real advantage
in NRW with maximum upgrades, half-tracked units become fast as hover units or even faster

Problem: weight/speed system works only for few designs

solution/suggestion:
player who got engine upgrade line should have faster units
1) weight of tanks and weapons should have more influence on game
so we should have more slow or medium speed units for this
(slow or medium means here that units should not move at maximum speed)
2) make engine upgrade more valuable
- by increasing percent of engine speed from 5% to 10% (or another rate)
- by increasing weight of some bodies and weapons to make tanks more affected by speed/terrain type/weapon weight (they should not move at maximum speed all time)

also i think is better to reduce effectiveness of fast units to give more chances for slow units
more slow units = more tactics in game, e.g. when player should decide - keep own base or help to ally and try crush enemy
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Re: Engine upgrades (researches) weight/speed system

Postby Iluvalar » 23 Apr 2012, 16:08

I'm open to share my recipe for uncapped maximum speed still looking normal. :)
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Re: Engine upgrades (researches) weight/speed system

Postby Giani » 24 Apr 2012, 00:05

Reg312 wrote:3) engine upgrades increase speed only for heavy weight tanks

I don't agree.
engine upgrade does not make tanks visible faster

Again,i don't agree.
engine upgrade does not used to make units faster

I use it in most of games.
Problem: weight/speed system works only for few designs

Try bug+wheels+heavy-cannon and a mantis+wheels+light-mg.

solution/suggestion:
player who got engine upgrade line should have faster units

Really? :stare:
2) make engine upgrade more valuable
- by increasing percent of engine speed from 5% to 10% (or another rate)

If it is done, don't make units faster than max.(whit all the upgrades)
- by increasing weight of some bodies and weapons to make tanks more affected by speed/terrain type/ weapon weight

I agree whit tanks being affected whit terrain type(but the weight of weapon affects the speed, if you don't believe me try a race whit a mantis+tracks+plasma cannon and a mantis+tracks+light-flamer)

(they should not move at maximum speed all time)

If you mean having commands for units going slow, fast or normal, then i would love that :D
Last edited by Giani on 24 Apr 2012, 00:29, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Engine upgrades (researches) weight/speed system

Postby NoQ » 24 Apr 2012, 00:13

Giani wrote:
Reg312 wrote:3) engine upgrades increase speed only for heavy weight tanks

I don't agree.
Lolwhat? Give a counterexample?
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Re: Engine upgrades (researches) weight/speed system

Postby Reg312 » 24 Apr 2012, 00:20

Giani wrote:
Reg312 wrote:3) engine upgrades increase speed only for heavy weight tanks

I don't agree.

most of tanks in most cases already move at fastest (maximum) speed

Giani wrote:
engine upgrade does not make tanks visible faster

Again,i don't agree.

i did not saw visible difference with or without engine upgrade... in NRS mod i see it :)


Giani wrote:
engine upgrade does not used to make units faster

I use it in most of games.

you can use it
1) when you have whole team of good players
2) when you have enough free oil
=> in bad team or in low oil games this upgrades should NOT be used because its does not give good result
and i'm not saying about first engine upgrades which you forced to use to get vtol or hovers

Giani wrote:
Problem: weight/speed system works only for few designs

Try bug+wheels+heavy-cannon and a mantis+wheels+heavy-cannon.

wtf? are you joking? :augh:
wheels never used because it weak propulsion
bug with heavy cannons also never used
i'm saying about games with players, not with bots :twisted:

i had another suggestion to make tracked propulsion better
with overpowered AG weapon in 3.1 we already get better tracked propulsion which you need to resist Ag fire :)
but, i think it will be fixed in one day, my complete suggestion is make tracked propulsion faster and make another propulsions and bodies more dependent on weight/terrain/engine upgrade... so if you dont agree, please give more serious examples :)

Giani wrote:
solution/suggestion:
player who got engine upgrade line should have faster units

Really? :stare:

yes.. if you play with bots and slow down game to 0.01 speed to see engine upgrades is your way
i'm saying about interesting game whene player can select upgrades for his needs :)

Giani wrote:
(they should not move at maximum speed all time)

If you mean having commands for units going slow, fast or normal, then i would love that :D


i meant.. engine upgrades should give more fun in game!
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Re: Engine upgrades (researches) weight/speed system

Postby Giani » 24 Apr 2012, 00:39

Reg312 wrote:
Giani wrote:
Reg312 wrote:3) engine upgrades increase speed only for heavy weight tanks

I don't agree.

most of tanks in most cases already move at fastest (maximum) speed

You mean they already have the engine upgraded at max?

Giani wrote:
engine upgrade does not make tanks visible faster

Again,i don't agree.

Reg312 wrote:i did not saw visible difference with or without engine upgrade... in NRS mod i see it :)

Because in NRS the tanks are x2 faster than in wz whit no mods.

Giani wrote:
engine upgrade does not used to make units faster

I use it in most of games.

Reg312 wrote:you can use it
1) when you have whole team of good players
2) when you have enough free oil
=> in bad team or in low oil games this upgrades should NOT be used because its does not give good result
and i'm not saying about first engine upgrades which you forced to use to get vtol or hovers

I know you don't mean the first engine upgrade.
But if i'm far of the enemy i research engine(of course i won't research it in little maps)And why need a good team so i can research it?That makes no sense.

Giani wrote:
Problem: weight/speed system works only for few designs

Try bug+wheels+heavy-cannon and a mantis+wheels+heavy-cannon.

Reg312 wrote:wtf? are you joking? :augh:
wheels never used because it weak propulsion
bug with heavy cannons also never used
i'm saying about games with players, not with bots :twisted:

Sorry, i meant a tank whit cannon and one whit mg :oops:
And of course bug and wheels are't used, i just say it for testing the difference of speed.

make tracked propulsion faster and make another propulsions and bodies more dependent on weight/terrain/engine upgrade

I never said that i don't agree whit making tracks a bit faster, i agree whit that...
But why to make the bodies to depent on terrain? What should depend in terrains is the propulsion.
And the engine makes the tanks faster. Why do you think it exists? That you don't see the difference doesn't mean there isn't any.
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Re: Engine upgrades (researches) weight/speed system

Postby Giani » 24 Apr 2012, 00:41

NoQ wrote:
Giani wrote:
Reg312 wrote:3) engine upgrades increase speed only for heavy weight tanks

I don't agree.
Lolwhat? Give a counterexample?

You think the engine doesn't upgrade the medium and light bodies?
And here an example: A python body is never faster than a scorpion body.(if they have same weapon and propulsion)
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Re: Engine upgrades (researches) weight/speed system

Postby Iluvalar » 24 Apr 2012, 02:27

scorpions is a good exemple, here is some of them ordered by speed.
Code: Select all
Machinegun Scorpion on Half-tracks speed:150
Twin Machinegun Scorpion on Half-tracks speed:150
Heavy Machinegun Scorpion on Half-tracks speed:150
Assault Gun Scorpion on Half-tracks speed:150
Light Cannon Scorpion on Half-tracks speed:150
Medium Cannon Scorpion on Half-tracks speed:120
Hyper Velocity Cannon Scorpion on Half-tracks speed:130.4347826087
Assault Cannon Scorpion on Half-tracks speed:150
Flamer Scorpion on Half-tracks speed:150
Mini-Rocket Pod Scorpion on Half-tracks speed:150
Lancer Scorpion on Half-tracks speed:150
Tank Killer Scorpion on Half-tracks speed:150
Mortar Scorpion on Half-tracks speed:150
Scourge Missile Scorpion on Half-tracks speed:150

As you see, without any engine upgrade, most of them are already capped at top speed. Unless you are a cannon monomaniac, the upgrades have no effects at all. Even if you are, having choice between a 30% ROF upgrade, a 10% accuracy or a 5% engine boost is not hard to take.
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Re: Engine upgrades (researches) weight/speed system

Postby NoQ » 24 Apr 2012, 06:32

Giani wrote:You mean they already have the engine upgraded at max?
NO :doh:
They move at the maximum speed cap of their propulsion, because most weapons are too light :hmm:
Giani wrote:You think the engine doesn't upgrade the medium and light bodies?
NO :doh:
"Heavy weight" != "Heavy class" :?
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Re: Engine upgrades (researches) weight/speed system

Postby Reg312 » 25 Apr 2012, 20:12

thinking. may be better remove rule:
if engine have higher power than total weight of droid, then droid gives 50% bonus to speed
its just hidden logic, and i think it makes harder to balance weight/speed

in result we getting only 2 droid types
1) droid which moves at maximum speed
2) droid which moves at slow speed
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Re: Engine upgrades (researches) weight/speed system

Postby crab_ » 18 Sep 2013, 10:11

Hello.
I just found speed modifiers was changed in master. (file propulsiontype.ini https://github.com/Warzone2100/warzone2100/blob/master/data/mp/stats/propulsiontype.ini)

Hover Engine Power increased 20% (100% -> 120%)
VTOL Engine Power 140% -> 130%

"Heavy Cannon Python Hover" changed speed from 2,04 to 2,32 (road, upgrade 5%)

Seems it is just dirty ini-conversion :? ?

Created Ticket #4070
Was unable to attach patch, to download it here:



I have made calculator for speed in warzone, If anyone interested :)
Speed Calc - 3.1.0.xlsx
(76.79 KiB) Downloaded 189 times
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Re: Engine upgrades (researches) weight/speed system

Postby anonim17465 » 19 Dec 2013, 12:19

I agree with the first topic, weight should have more influence.
My offer is to slightly increase weight of small cannon, and drammatically increase weight of flamethrowers (huge, armored petrol tanks and huge black-powed-powered pistons should be heavy. flamethrower should be defensive or anti-bunkers weapon, but not the general offensive weapon like now)

increasing 5% to 10% per upgrade would be good too.. But first of all there should be more heavy weapons. like flamethrowers.
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Re: Engine upgrades (researches) weight/speed system

Postby anonim17465 » 19 Dec 2013, 21:07

Can you just send your patch to the developers with description, so they would able to add it into a game at next update, or it's much harder than that?
I like this idea...
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Re: Engine upgrades (researches) weight/speed system

Postby crab_ » 24 Dec 2013, 11:27

anonim17465 wrote:Can you just send your patch to the developers with description, so they would able to add it into a game at next update, or it's much harder than that?
I like this idea...


I will make separate patch which fixes speed issues and I'll send it to devs. :)
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Re: Engine upgrades (researches) weight/speed system

Postby RBMW-Collector » 28 Jan 2014, 10:45

Hi all! Today i tested tank's speed with different textures. So i found out most of it dont work!!
http://betaguide.wz2100.net/stats.php?view=TerrainTable
Most tanks dont care what surface they going through!! Speeding the Highway or dragging on the off road - same effect!!
The only one thing that textures do - is making very heavy slow units just a little bit slower! What a outrageous thing!!!
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