Engine upgrades (researches) weight/speed system
Engine upgrades (researches) weight/speed system
Engine upgrades (researches)
this topis about making engine upgrades, engine power and weight of designs more valuable in game
engine upgrades overview
1) each engine upgrade increases power of engine of each unit(tank, cyborg, vtol) by 5%
BUT this does not affect most units, because most units already have their maximum speed and cannot move faster
2) also we research engine upgrages to get following things:
- power module / mini-rockets
- hover propulsion
- vtol propulsion
- mantis body
we dont use engine upgrade to make units faster, because given effect very low
3) engine upgrades increase speed only for heavy weight tanks
Problem: engine upgrade does not make tanks visible faster
engine upgrade does not used to make units faster because 5% of engine power is very small addition
in Inluvalar's NRS mod engine upgrades actually increase speed of all units and it gives real advantage
in NRW with maximum upgrades, half-tracked units become fast as hover units or even faster
Problem: weight/speed system works only for few designs
solution/suggestion:
player who got engine upgrade line should have faster units
1) weight of tanks and weapons should have more influence on game
so we should have more slow or medium speed units for this
(slow or medium means here that units should not move at maximum speed)
2) make engine upgrade more valuable
- by increasing percent of engine speed from 5% to 10% (or another rate)
- by increasing weight of some bodies and weapons to make tanks more affected by speed/terrain type/weapon weight (they should not move at maximum speed all time)
also i think is better to reduce effectiveness of fast units to give more chances for slow units
more slow units = more tactics in game, e.g. when player should decide - keep own base or help to ally and try crush enemy
this topis about making engine upgrades, engine power and weight of designs more valuable in game
engine upgrades overview
1) each engine upgrade increases power of engine of each unit(tank, cyborg, vtol) by 5%
BUT this does not affect most units, because most units already have their maximum speed and cannot move faster
2) also we research engine upgrages to get following things:
- power module / mini-rockets
- hover propulsion
- vtol propulsion
- mantis body
we dont use engine upgrade to make units faster, because given effect very low
3) engine upgrades increase speed only for heavy weight tanks
Problem: engine upgrade does not make tanks visible faster
engine upgrade does not used to make units faster because 5% of engine power is very small addition
in Inluvalar's NRS mod engine upgrades actually increase speed of all units and it gives real advantage
in NRW with maximum upgrades, half-tracked units become fast as hover units or even faster
Problem: weight/speed system works only for few designs
solution/suggestion:
player who got engine upgrade line should have faster units
1) weight of tanks and weapons should have more influence on game
so we should have more slow or medium speed units for this
(slow or medium means here that units should not move at maximum speed)
2) make engine upgrade more valuable
- by increasing percent of engine speed from 5% to 10% (or another rate)
- by increasing weight of some bodies and weapons to make tanks more affected by speed/terrain type/weapon weight (they should not move at maximum speed all time)
also i think is better to reduce effectiveness of fast units to give more chances for slow units
more slow units = more tactics in game, e.g. when player should decide - keep own base or help to ally and try crush enemy
Re: Engine upgrades (researches) weight/speed system
I'm open to share my recipe for uncapped maximum speed still looking normal.
Heretic 2.3 improver and proud of it.
Re: Engine upgrades (researches) weight/speed system
I don't agree.Reg312 wrote:3) engine upgrades increase speed only for heavy weight tanks
Again,i don't agree.engine upgrade does not make tanks visible faster
I use it in most of games.engine upgrade does not used to make units faster
Try bug+wheels+heavy-cannon and a mantis+wheels+light-mg.Problem: weight/speed system works only for few designs
Really?solution/suggestion:
player who got engine upgrade line should have faster units
If it is done, don't make units faster than max.(whit all the upgrades)2) make engine upgrade more valuable
- by increasing percent of engine speed from 5% to 10% (or another rate)
I agree whit tanks being affected whit terrain type(but the weight of weapon affects the speed, if you don't believe me try a race whit a mantis+tracks+plasma cannon and a mantis+tracks+light-flamer)- by increasing weight of some bodies and weapons to make tanks more affected by speed/terrain type/ weapon weight
If you mean having commands for units going slow, fast or normal, then i would love that(they should not move at maximum speed all time)
Last edited by Giani on 24 Apr 2012, 00:29, edited 1 time in total.
My maps: http://forums.wz2100.net/viewtopic.php?f=10&t=9501
Re: Engine upgrades (researches) weight/speed system
Lolwhat? Give a counterexample?Giani wrote:I don't agree.Reg312 wrote:3) engine upgrades increase speed only for heavy weight tanks
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Re: Engine upgrades (researches) weight/speed system
most of tanks in most cases already move at fastest (maximum) speedGiani wrote:I don't agree.Reg312 wrote:3) engine upgrades increase speed only for heavy weight tanks
i did not saw visible difference with or without engine upgrade... in NRS mod i see itGiani wrote:Again,i don't agree.engine upgrade does not make tanks visible faster
you can use itGiani wrote:I use it in most of games.engine upgrade does not used to make units faster
1) when you have whole team of good players
2) when you have enough free oil
=> in bad team or in low oil games this upgrades should NOT be used because its does not give good result
and i'm not saying about first engine upgrades which you forced to use to get vtol or hovers
wtf? are you joking?Giani wrote:Try bug+wheels+heavy-cannon and a mantis+wheels+heavy-cannon.Problem: weight/speed system works only for few designs
wheels never used because it weak propulsion
bug with heavy cannons also never used
i'm saying about games with players, not with bots
i had another suggestion to make tracked propulsion better
with overpowered AG weapon in 3.1 we already get better tracked propulsion which you need to resist Ag fire
but, i think it will be fixed in one day, my complete suggestion is make tracked propulsion faster and make another propulsions and bodies more dependent on weight/terrain/engine upgrade... so if you dont agree, please give more serious examples
yes.. if you play with bots and slow down game to 0.01 speed to see engine upgrades is your wayGiani wrote:Really?solution/suggestion:
player who got engine upgrade line should have faster units
i'm saying about interesting game whene player can select upgrades for his needs
i meant.. engine upgrades should give more fun in game!Giani wrote:If you mean having commands for units going slow, fast or normal, then i would love that(they should not move at maximum speed all time)
Re: Engine upgrades (researches) weight/speed system
You mean they already have the engine upgraded at max?Reg312 wrote:most of tanks in most cases already move at fastest (maximum) speedGiani wrote:I don't agree.Reg312 wrote:3) engine upgrades increase speed only for heavy weight tanks
Giani wrote:Again,i don't agree.engine upgrade does not make tanks visible faster
Because in NRS the tanks are x2 faster than in wz whit no mods.Reg312 wrote:i did not saw visible difference with or without engine upgrade... in NRS mod i see it
Giani wrote:I use it in most of games.engine upgrade does not used to make units faster
I know you don't mean the first engine upgrade.Reg312 wrote: you can use it
1) when you have whole team of good players
2) when you have enough free oil
=> in bad team or in low oil games this upgrades should NOT be used because its does not give good result
and i'm not saying about first engine upgrades which you forced to use to get vtol or hovers
But if i'm far of the enemy i research engine(of course i won't research it in little maps)And why need a good team so i can research it?That makes no sense.
Giani wrote:Try bug+wheels+heavy-cannon and a mantis+wheels+heavy-cannon.Problem: weight/speed system works only for few designs
Sorry, i meant a tank whit cannon and one whit mgReg312 wrote:wtf? are you joking?
wheels never used because it weak propulsion
bug with heavy cannons also never used
i'm saying about games with players, not with bots
And of course bug and wheels are't used, i just say it for testing the difference of speed.
I never said that i don't agree whit making tracks a bit faster, i agree whit that...make tracked propulsion faster and make another propulsions and bodies more dependent on weight/terrain/engine upgrade
But why to make the bodies to depent on terrain? What should depend in terrains is the propulsion.
And the engine makes the tanks faster. Why do you think it exists? That you don't see the difference doesn't mean there isn't any.
My maps: http://forums.wz2100.net/viewtopic.php?f=10&t=9501
Re: Engine upgrades (researches) weight/speed system
You think the engine doesn't upgrade the medium and light bodies?NoQ wrote:Lolwhat? Give a counterexample?Giani wrote:I don't agree.Reg312 wrote:3) engine upgrades increase speed only for heavy weight tanks
And here an example: A python body is never faster than a scorpion body.(if they have same weapon and propulsion)
My maps: http://forums.wz2100.net/viewtopic.php?f=10&t=9501
Re: Engine upgrades (researches) weight/speed system
scorpions is a good exemple, here is some of them ordered by speed.
As you see, without any engine upgrade, most of them are already capped at top speed. Unless you are a cannon monomaniac, the upgrades have no effects at all. Even if you are, having choice between a 30% ROF upgrade, a 10% accuracy or a 5% engine boost is not hard to take.
Code: Select all
Machinegun Scorpion on Half-tracks speed:150
Twin Machinegun Scorpion on Half-tracks speed:150
Heavy Machinegun Scorpion on Half-tracks speed:150
Assault Gun Scorpion on Half-tracks speed:150
Light Cannon Scorpion on Half-tracks speed:150
Medium Cannon Scorpion on Half-tracks speed:120
Hyper Velocity Cannon Scorpion on Half-tracks speed:130.4347826087
Assault Cannon Scorpion on Half-tracks speed:150
Flamer Scorpion on Half-tracks speed:150
Mini-Rocket Pod Scorpion on Half-tracks speed:150
Lancer Scorpion on Half-tracks speed:150
Tank Killer Scorpion on Half-tracks speed:150
Mortar Scorpion on Half-tracks speed:150
Scourge Missile Scorpion on Half-tracks speed:150
Heretic 2.3 improver and proud of it.
Re: Engine upgrades (researches) weight/speed system
NOGiani wrote:You mean they already have the engine upgraded at max?
They move at the maximum speed cap of their propulsion, because most weapons are too light
NOGiani wrote:You think the engine doesn't upgrade the medium and light bodies?
"Heavy weight" != "Heavy class"
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Re: Engine upgrades (researches) weight/speed system
thinking. may be better remove rule:
if engine have higher power than total weight of droid, then droid gives 50% bonus to speed
its just hidden logic, and i think it makes harder to balance weight/speed
in result we getting only 2 droid types
1) droid which moves at maximum speed
2) droid which moves at slow speed
if engine have higher power than total weight of droid, then droid gives 50% bonus to speed
its just hidden logic, and i think it makes harder to balance weight/speed
in result we getting only 2 droid types
1) droid which moves at maximum speed
2) droid which moves at slow speed
Re: Engine upgrades (researches) weight/speed system
Hello.
I just found speed modifiers was changed in master. (file propulsiontype.ini https://github.com/Warzone2100/warzone2 ... ontype.ini)
Hover Engine Power increased 20% (100% -> 120%)
VTOL Engine Power 140% -> 130%
"Heavy Cannon Python Hover" changed speed from 2,04 to 2,32 (road, upgrade 5%)
Seems it is just dirty ini-conversion ?
Created Ticket #4070
Was unable to attach patch, to download it here:
I have made calculator for speed in warzone, If anyone interested
I just found speed modifiers was changed in master. (file propulsiontype.ini https://github.com/Warzone2100/warzone2 ... ontype.ini)
Hover Engine Power increased 20% (100% -> 120%)
VTOL Engine Power 140% -> 130%
"Heavy Cannon Python Hover" changed speed from 2,04 to 2,32 (road, upgrade 5%)
Seems it is just dirty ini-conversion ?
Created Ticket #4070
Was unable to attach patch, to download it here:
I have made calculator for speed in warzone, If anyone interested
Warzone2100 Guide - http://betaguide.wz2100.net/
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Re: Engine upgrades (researches) weight/speed system
I agree with the first topic, weight should have more influence.
My offer is to slightly increase weight of small cannon, and drammatically increase weight of flamethrowers (huge, armored petrol tanks and huge black-powed-powered pistons should be heavy. flamethrower should be defensive or anti-bunkers weapon, but not the general offensive weapon like now)
increasing 5% to 10% per upgrade would be good too.. But first of all there should be more heavy weapons. like flamethrowers.
My offer is to slightly increase weight of small cannon, and drammatically increase weight of flamethrowers (huge, armored petrol tanks and huge black-powed-powered pistons should be heavy. flamethrower should be defensive or anti-bunkers weapon, but not the general offensive weapon like now)
increasing 5% to 10% per upgrade would be good too.. But first of all there should be more heavy weapons. like flamethrowers.
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Re: Engine upgrades (researches) weight/speed system
Can you just send your patch to the developers with description, so they would able to add it into a game at next update, or it's much harder than that?
I like this idea...
I like this idea...
Re: Engine upgrades (researches) weight/speed system
I will make separate patch which fixes speed issues and I'll send it to devs.anonim17465 wrote:Can you just send your patch to the developers with description, so they would able to add it into a game at next update, or it's much harder than that?
I like this idea...
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Re: Engine upgrades (researches) weight/speed system
Hi all! Today i tested tank's speed with different textures. So i found out most of it dont work!!
http://betaguide.wz2100.net/stats.php?view=TerrainTable
Most tanks dont care what surface they going through!! Speeding the Highway or dragging on the off road - same effect!!
The only one thing that textures do - is making very heavy slow units just a little bit slower! What a outrageous thing!!!
http://betaguide.wz2100.net/stats.php?view=TerrainTable
Most tanks dont care what surface they going through!! Speeding the Highway or dragging on the off road - same effect!!
The only one thing that textures do - is making very heavy slow units just a little bit slower! What a outrageous thing!!!
AKA Redemptor. Map designer