Updating all documents

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Lord Apocalypse
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Re: Updating all documents

Post by Lord Apocalypse » 31 May 2012, 05:29

I think Rman is still a bit miffed about Crass (minus the cr) and his melodramatic assumption (note again the first 3) that rman, myself, and others have made no contributions to this game after puumpkin. While I do feel that some people have underplayed our role (or ignored it entirely) I think Rman felt, or in the very least thought, that you too had made reference to said fact (am I sounding rmanish at all??).

It is quite possible he was in a hurry when reading over
Well, we did start to do some work here: Contributors and that was meant to be able to generate the AUTHORS file more easily, and keep track of everyone more efficiently.
and took offense were none was meant or implied.

Frankly, I like the Idea of splitting this into contributors (anyone involved directly in this project) and history (everyone involved since pumpkin to keep this game alive, though that would be a rather long list).

Now, since rman is responsible for getting the source release does that make him a contributor or a part of history (unless he has anything that has made it into masters at any point during development)?

Thats my thoughts on this and his comment. Am I in any way correct rman?

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Rman Virgil
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Re: Updating all documents

Post by Rman Virgil » 31 May 2012, 07:25

Lord Apocalypse wrote:I think Rman is still a bit miffed about Crass (minus the cr) and his melodramatic assumption (note again the first 3) that rman, myself, and others have made no contributions to this game after puumpkin. While I do feel that some people have underplayed our role (or ignored it entirely) I think Rman felt, or in the very least thought, that you too had made reference to said fact (am I sounding rmanish at all??).

It is quite possible he was in a hurry when reading over
Well, we did start to do some work here: Contributors and that was meant to be able to generate the AUTHORS file more easily, and keep track of everyone more efficiently.
and took offense were none was meant or implied.

Frankly, I like the Idea of splitting this into contributors (anyone involved directly in this project) and history (everyone involved since pumpkin to keep this game alive, though that would be a rather long list).

Now, since rman is responsible for getting the source release does that make him a contributor or a part of history (unless he has anything that has made it into masters at any point during development)?

Thats my thoughts on this and his comment. Am I in any way correct rman?
Well LA I have only one bone of contention and it's very simple. There are folks whose tangible work over the course of 6 years, across the full spectrum of what can be done (including the design and coding of progs) merit recognition as intrumental in keeping this game alive after Pumpkin went under and were absolutely central to the ultimate liberation of the source. Without them we absolutely would not be here. The source would never have been released without them and their concerted work efforts which is every bit the equal of all that's been done since '05. All done under the often frustrating constraints of not having the source and the nagging uncertainty that for all our efforts & abundant work there were no guarantees we would ever succeed in its liberation.

You mentioned some of those folks. There are a few more. Folks like yourself, 4nE, Stratadrake, Sab, Carver, Elric is Not Dead, SLONER, Speedy, Laws215 and a few more. It's reprehensible. It's digraceful. And I must take responsibility for that. It was one of my failures of leadership post liberation. I'm here to address it.

As well, there is an adjunct to this point - these same folks could have still been assets. They have the mature, 1st class talent, skill sets, determination and love of the game, to have been motivated to continue to make central contributions to this project.

This project has always had a chronic manpower shortage. These circumstances are related.

That's it.

As for myself, I just wanna continue to honor my word, the explicit and public covenant I made originally back '99 with Pumpkin Studios (WZ Creators), the original fan base of 50,000+ strong and, most poignantly for me, my teamates from the get go who busted their a$$es working clear through to liberation.

That done, I just wanna retreat to focus on cinematic work which is where my current WZ interest and pure joy reside.

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Re: Updating all documents

Post by Rman Virgil » 31 May 2012, 15:05

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Frankly, I like the Idea of splitting this into contributors (anyone involved directly in this project) and history (everyone involved since pumpkin to keep this game alive, though that would be a rather long list).
Moving foward taking this as a positive proposition I will proceed.

I will start a thread. Maybe the General Discussion BB would be apt. I'll call it -

Pre-liberation to Liberation: An Honor Roll

I will begin the list but it will be open to additions because of any inadvertant oversights on my part.

It will be open to additions by any of the 50, 000 + of the original community (1998 - 2004) who may still be around and wanna weigh-in. This would include former liberation team members, supporting communities and WZ Creators themselves, of course.

There you have it.

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Re: Updating all documents

Post by Lord Apocalypse » 01 Jun 2012, 04:23

I will look up names on the old newst forum if I can get it running locally, or failing that see if I can tell who had access to the privates forums in the member list.

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Re: Updating all documents

Post by Rman Virgil » 01 Jun 2012, 05:18

Lord Apocalypse wrote:I will look up names on the old newst forum if I can get it running locally, or failing that see if I can tell who had access to the privates forums in the member list.
K. :) I'm doing it alphabetical. Cowboy has old resources as well on his company server. We can continue in the proposed new thread this weekend.... by Sunday.

BTW - The Wayback Time Machine yields some results as well like:

http://web.archive.org/web/200206032351 ... newst.html

http://archive.org/web/web.php

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Last edited by Rman Virgil on 01 Jun 2012, 06:21, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Updating all documents

Post by Lord Apocalypse » 01 Jun 2012, 06:10

Another page that has a few names that (in some part) predate NEWST http://web.archive.org/web/200212020414 ... owldg.html.

Its a shame that the old site is kinda mangled on there, it was such a unique site design :)

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Re: Updating all documents

Post by Rman Virgil » 03 Jun 2012, 17:17

Lord Apocalypse wrote:Another page that has a few names that (in some part) predate NEWST http://web.archive.org/web/200212020414 ... owldg.html.

Its a shame that the old site is kinda mangled on there, it was such a unique site design :)
Yes, we had our antecedents as well - folks that made our journey possible and deserved acknowledgment, openly, freely and graciously. Athena sprang full grown and ready to rock on her own from the forehead of Zeus..... rarely works out that way in RL amongst mortal beings who live interdependently without god-like powers. Which reminds me of Lord Acton's quip vis-a-vis the antics amongst the anchient Greek pantheon of gods:
Power tends to corrupt and absolute power corrupts absolutely.
Thus the importance of mechanisms of accountability, humility and gracious acknowledgment.

=======>

Yea... too bad the Way Back Timemachine mangled up the site's unique aesthetics which I'm also fond of. I especially liked that it payed homage to the color pallet of Pumpkin Studios Official WZ 2100 MPlayer BBs.


I'll have the 1st iteration of the Pre-Liberation Honor Roll ready and up sometime this evening and I'll post the thread link here.

I've gotten a little side-tracked (so what's new about that) sketching out different designs for a Scavenger Faction Logo - you can thank a post by aubergine for that dalliance on my part. ;)

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Re: Updating all documents

Post by aubergine » 03 Jun 2012, 19:06

Rman Virgil wrote:I've gotten a little side-tracked (so what's new about that) sketching out different designs for a Scavenger Faction Logo - you can thank a post by aubergine for that dalliance on my part. ;)
:ninja: Who, me? :)
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Re: Updating all documents

Post by Kreuvf » 03 Jun 2012, 20:57

Rman Virgil wrote: Pre-liberation to Liberation: An Honor Roll

I will begin the list but it will be open to additions because of any inadvertant oversights on my part.

It will be open to additions by any of the 50, 000 + of the original community (1998 - 2004) who may still be around and wanna weigh-in. This would include former liberation team members, supporting communities and WZ Creators themselves, of course.

There you have it.
I am totally against this. You can do that list on your own and host it somewhere and maybe it gets indexed by the internet archive as well. But adding all that unnecessary and uninteresting clutter to every WZ download does not move things forward. We (as in: the Warzone 2100 Project) have drawn the line already years ago. And just because there is the theoretical possibility to change stuff now, does not mean anything should be done.

Get over it, nobody would read it anyway. And... when I wrote my WZ history article (it's in German), I did not include all the names as well. Why? Because it does not matter to anybody. The only thing which counts is that WZ is liberated and that it was a community effort as Alex McLean himself stated:
The correspondence, online petitions and persistence made this possible. We were constantly amazed at the community support for Warzone even after all this time; it's nice to be able to give something back, assuming you can get it to compile...;-)
I signed that petition as well, but I do not need to tell that to everybody all the time and it is totally irrelevant today. And it is even totally irrelevant who exactly was the community person responsible. If it was not you, somebody else would have done it. I respect you for having done this, but to me this looks like you are resting on your laurels. And btw: I will not discuss this stuff any further, I wasted enough time on it already. Get over it.

And if it hasn't become clear by now: No.
Contact only via [url=https://warzone2100.de/impressum.php]e-mail[/url]. GPG encryption supported ([url=https://gpg.kreuvf.de/kreuvf2015.asc]my key[/url]).

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Re: Updating all documents

Post by aubergine » 03 Jun 2012, 21:15

Uhm, I for one would find the historic information most interesting, as I'm currently compiling a Warzone Encyclopaedia and would like to gather such infos for people in the future who, like me, want to know more about Warzone's past.
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Re: Updating all documents

Post by vexed » 03 Jun 2012, 21:30

aubergine wrote:Uhm, I for one would find the historic information most interesting, as I'm currently compiling a Warzone Encyclopaedia and would like to gather such infos for people in the future who, like me, want to know more about Warzone's past.
It should have a wiki entry about all this stuff that went on in the past, so people who want to read it can.
aka WarzoneHistory
/facepalm ...Grinch stole Warzone🙈🙉🙊 contra principia negantem non est disputandum
Super busy, don't expect a timely reply back.

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Re: Updating all documents

Post by Rman Virgil » 04 Jun 2012, 01:36

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The Petition was but one aspect of many that went into Liberating the source. Much preceeded it and much took place in the interim between it and actual liberation. At most, it was a tipping point. A culmination of a very long journey that even then had many miles and tasks ahead to cinch the deal.

The Honor Roll is not a history or a catalog of those who signed the Petition.

The Honor Roll is but a fairly short text of nicks of those who contributed directly and actively over the course of 6 years to sustaining the game in so many ways towards its ultimate liberation.

I have not rested on my laurels in 13 years when it comes to WZ as anyone who truly knows me in the public proceedings, as well private interactions, and has been around with any active consistency over the years, can attest. This is not about me. As I already made clear. Alex Mclean already thanked me, in the the part of source distro that was conspicuously not quoted, by my RL name, which he did on his own, unbeknowest to me until I looked at the distro he sent me. Surely, at that point, in the winter of '04 I could have walked away and rested on my laurels. Fact is, I didn't.

The vehemence of this expressed objection is interesting but comes as no suprise really.

It's quite facsile and entirely bogus to say in hindesight that you are sure someone else would have eventually done what some one in fact did.... and thus dismiss the accomplishment of that individual as of no real consequence.

Truly, there is no competition here between the pre-liberation and post-liberation eras.

It is a simple ethical and moral imperative for me. And I have no doubt that Alex Mclean would approve. It's called "bearing witness", a term I would think familiar to any with more than cursory knowledge of unfolding, organized, goal driven events and the difference between primary, secondary & tertiary sources of information.

I will post the list. What is done thereafter, if anything, is not in my hands, obviously.

I will trust that it is not generally percieved in the manner of this vehement objection, which Arthur Koestler directly spoke to when he said:
Woe unto the defeated, whom history treads into the dust. ~ Darkness at Noon
.
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Impact = C x (R + E + A + T + E)

Contrast
Reach
Exposure
Articulation
Trust
Echo
.

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Re: Updating all documents

Post by Rman Virgil » 04 Jun 2012, 05:24

.

The seperate thread commenced as per above:

viewtopic.php?f=3&t=9512&p=104756#p104756

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Re: Updating all documents

Post by Per » 04 Jun 2012, 07:52

I like having history written up, but I do not quite see how having a list of nicks will be informative for posterity. I think I'd rather want to read what happened than who did it.

Speaking of history, I'd love to have the pre-liberation forums up again (read-only). Is there any chance of that? (I can host it, if necessary.)

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Re: Updating all documents

Post by Lord Apocalypse » 04 Jun 2012, 09:01

Which forums? I have most of the newst ubb forums archived. Havent found a post ubb archive though. I may be able to write up a conversion script to get it up and running with phpbb though given some time (Ultimate Bulletin Board at the time was all perl).

As far as a List of Nicks... for those who remember that history that is really all anyone knows except for Rman's name. I don't even know if I ever gave Alex M. MY name during all the emails we sent back and forth.

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