Heroes and Commander Ideas

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NucNut
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Re: Heroes and Commander Ideas

Post by NucNut » 01 Oct 2007, 07:03

What i'd like to see is a split between the designator/commander/artillery spotter units, as the commandwerer as is is a little to varied in this regard.

*Make basic commanders as a normal unit with a slightly different turret, eg: has several whip aerials ion it to represent improved comms, but is essentially the same as all the other members of his squad (maybe a little more accurate/armour/etc.) you see this with modern day command tanks

*Make scout/spotter commanders as a dedicated "assign fire support" unit, but you can assign base artillery or mobile artilllery to him, would have an increased sensor & designator range to represent this (Maybe deleting the command turrets projectile effect could represent this - its just a camera)

Most of all, i'd just like to see commanders as normal nits with a slight tweaking to their stats, because in RL, commanders are not just a designator, the have advanced communications gear and targetting equipment, but they are still armed. Having the commander as a multi-turreted unit, with a light weapon defending the commander while the designator paints a target would be ideal.

Commanders a great thing in WZ2100, but they should be made a little more realistic - bring on the command tank!
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Re: Heroes and Commander Ideas

Post by Rman Virgil » 01 Oct 2007, 09:28

* Yup... those would all be welcome & realistic improvements.

* One thing I've never heard mentioned is a cosmetic face lift for Commanders or more aptly - total, radical,  reconstructive surgery.

* It may sound silly but Commander turrets are butt-ugly & ridiculous looking, IMO... something you might expect as the offspring of a dung beatle mating with a cockaroach ... if such an interspecies fandango were possible.

* Their look never struck me as being even remotely militaristic and I've speculated they might have been modeled after a half-dozen pints of Guinness Stout in a bug-eyed state of mind.

- RV :)
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Re: Heroes and Commander Ideas

Post by Kayiaxo » 12 Oct 2007, 22:28

Kacen wrote: Add umm how umm would having more units under your command increase your armor? O_o;

I think we should steer clear of CNShit-style systems in this. =P
Well, the commander would have more armor because the units are his armor, they serve as dog food for the commander.
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Re: Heroes and Commander Ideas

Post by Rman Virgil » 13 Oct 2007, 15:41

------->

* We started looking at how to develope WZs "Experience & Rank" GPMs just before the source was liberated back in '04 & the archive is at rts.net (it's also mirrored at the WZ2100 wiki I made 4 years ago). There was also a special focus on HOW this would or could play-out with Commander led combat groupings.

* Absolutely full of potential - really exciting stuff, IMO.

* Shortly after the WZ Source was released, maybe early '05, I came across an RTS in development that was dedicated to fully exploring this area and their implementation is the most extensive I've ever seen in an RTS - their maps also represent 25 kms !!!! Plus so much more.

* Officers will see release 1st Q '08.

* Here is the most recent interview with one of the cool cats from the Russian Development Team:

http://www.strategyinformer.com/pc/offi ... rview.html


* And here is the home page:

http://www.playlogicint.com/games/?id=officers

* Lots of details, screens, film, etc.

* For me this is yet another example of Pumpkin's farsighted vision for WZ's evolution. (The "Drive" feature would be another example.... there are many but I won't list them all here.)

* This type of foresight can be made incarnate via "generative, modular, archetectonic, design". (Which is also one of the many things that impresses me about
the "TA: Spring" Project.... &, if I may hazard an eductated guess, is also the Modus Operandi of the alternate code-base to the WRPs base.)


-  RV :)
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Re: Heroes and Commander Ideas

Post by Rman Virgil » 16 Oct 2007, 12:18

Rman Virgil wrote: * Yup... those would all be welcome & realistic improvements.
* One thing I've never heard mentioned is a cosmetic face lift for Commanders or more aptly - total, radical,? reconstructive surgery.
* It may sound silly but Commander turrets are butt-ugly & ridiculous looking, IMO... something you might expect as the offspring of a dung beatle mating with a cockaroach ... if such an interspecies fandango were possible.
* Their look never struck me as being even remotely militaristic and I've speculated they might have been modeled after a half-dozen pints of Guinness Stout in a bug-eyed state of mind.
- RV :)
* Yikes ! That sounded mean-spirited..... didn't mean it that way...

* (BTW, Commander upgrades Mk2-4 were never implemented.... easy enough to activate.... but right now your wasting your $$)

* WHY not have multiple Commander Types like so:

* Air Defense Command System - Designed specifically to counter the threat of Mangodai Shockwave Bombs. Fastest speed of any commander, good druability, and surprisingly inexpensive. Primary drawback is the inability to designate ground targets, thus this one is best suited for defense.

* Sniper Command System - Longest range of the commanders, and highest sole hitting power (plasma-based), but its range is very narrow--14 to 16 squares.

* Ground Command System - Armed with dual-strength Scourge Missiles, but low on its body points and somewhat expensive.

* Field Command System - Armed with dual Pulse Lasers, able to strike at & command both ground and air.

* Elite Command System - A commander firing EMP's?? HEAD FOR THE HILLS!!!

* Disruptor Command System - What could be more dangerous than an EMP commander?

* How about a NEXUS Link Commander?? AAAAAAAAAHHHHH!!!

* And how 'bout something more akin to this type of platform:

Image

(This is an EXO-Skel.... there's a little guy in there useing his brains..which have been augemented by a Synaptic Link that is being feed Digital Battlefield Data supplied by deployed Micro Air Recon Drones .)

- RV :)
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Re: Heroes and Commander Ideas

Post by NucNut » 16 Oct 2007, 14:37

Back in the day i screwed around with the WZCK and 'tweaked' the archangel missiles so they did ELECTRONIC damage ... OMFG!!!

It was absolute chaos in that skirmish round...

How about your 'Magondai' have this kind of ability (good faction choice if faction choice is implemented in MPlayer) - the can nexus a unit at extreme range, but very slowly - how about 'tweaking' the las-sat (OMFG!! OMFG!!)  ;)

Take a page from Warhammer 40K - the command tanks are normal ones with an extra sensor dish/designator glued on - just change the weapons turret mount so it has a sensor dish...
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Re: Heroes and Commander Ideas

Post by Rman Virgil » 17 Oct 2007, 05:03

NucNut wrote:
Back in the day i screwed around with the WZCK and 'tweaked' the archangel missiles so they did ELECTRONIC damage ... OMFG!!!

It was absolute chaos in that skirmish round...

How about your 'Magondai' have this kind of ability (good faction choice if faction choice is implemented in MPlayer) - the can nexus a unit at extreme range, but very slowly - how about 'tweaking' the las-sat (OMFG!! OMFG!!)  ;)

Take a page from Warhammer 40K - the command tanks are normal ones with an extra sensor dish/designator glued on - just change the weapons turret mount so it has a sensor dish...
* There are so many amazing things that can be done in a Sequel Campaign. Factions are certainly ripe for enhancement & will get a deeper treatment.

* Covering 100 years (from 2100 to 2200) there will be ample room to take it all to a new level of immersive story fleshed-out with fresh sights, sounds & even more addictive GPMs that will challenge the strategic General within you.

- RV :)
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Re: Heroes and Commander Ideas

Post by Kayiaxo » 26 Oct 2007, 23:06

I wonder if the developpers have already implemented something to give the Commander and units with ranks more value, to make it worthwhile putting effort in using them ?
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Re: Heroes and Commander Ideas

Post by 1984Softy » 04 Nov 2007, 21:06

As far as I know the MK2-3-4 commanders don't change anything now.

If that's so we could leave the MK1 commander as is so as not to unbalance the beginning game, and add various weapons to the upgraded command turrets.

If the command turret has a weapon it should have at least the same range as the laser designator, because the commander should not have to get too close to enemies.

I would also like to see an artillery command unit capable of having repaired units return to it.

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Re: Heroes and Commander Ideas

Post by EvilGuru » 04 Nov 2007, 21:56

Kayiaxo wrote: I wonder if the developpers have already implemented something to give the Commander and units with ranks more value, to make it worthwhile putting effort in using them ?
Work is underway to make commanders more useful. One of these will be the concept of global experience. This means that if a unit is assigned to a commander and the commander has a higher experience level that itself it will take on the commanders experience level for as long as it remains assigned to the commander. Currently this only applies when one is receiving damage, but when I revamp the experience system (more damage + more accuracy for higher ranks).

There was also some talk of multiple attack vectors for units assigned to commanders. So if you have 5 bunker busters and 5 heavy cannon tanks assigned to a commander and leave them to it the BBs will attack any structures first and the tanks will go for any units first.

Thus you can assign specialist units to a commander and have them always attack 'the right thing' with all of the advantages of focused fire.

As for the Mk1 => Mk4 my plan is this. Currently the formula for commanders is 6 + cmdrLevel * 2. I plan to change this to: 6 + cmdrLevel * 2 * cmdrMk.

I would be interested in knowing what you think of these ideas.

Regards, Freddie.

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Re: Heroes and Commander Ideas

Post by Kayiaxo » 05 Nov 2007, 22:21

Those ideas are interesting but I don't see what "Mk" stands for.
Although I think the choices made are good, I wonder if the "Mk" will make the commander more resistant ?
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Re: Heroes and Commander Ideas

Post by EvilGuru » 05 Nov 2007, 22:41

Kayiaxo wrote: Those ideas are interesting but I don't see what "Mk" stands for.
Although I think the choices made are good, I wonder if the "Mk" will make the commander more resistant ?
Mk I believe stands for Mark, or revision. So Mk II is the second commander revision. If the general consensus is that the updated versions should have more armour then that is no problem at all to change.

Regards, Freddie.

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Re: Heroes and Commander Ideas

Post by psychopompos » 08 Nov 2007, 11:11

the command turret is already one of the tougher units is it not?

i wouldnt like to see its weapon/armour upped, because then it sucks the need for in intelligence in the player.
i suggested in the wish list that commanders should always put at least a few of the assigned units between it& the enemy.

as this will up the CT survival and remove some of the frustrating micro-management needed from the player.
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Re: Heroes and Commander Ideas

Post by ouch » 20 Nov 2007, 22:09

the biggest problem I have with commanders and vehicles with sensors, and sensor towers. Is that any unit assigned to them loses the ability to think for themselfs. What I mean by that is if an enemy comes in range they don't fire on it unless whatever structure/unit they are assigned to orders them too. This happens even if they are under fire and the unit/structure thier assigned to doesn't have a target in range to shoot at. at the very least they shoot stuff when the structure/unit they are assigned to doesn't have a target. Ideally (expecially commanders) the unit should also say "hey, I'm under attack! heres the guys location." and beable to act as a radar extension for the group and/or the structure/unit they are assigned to.

Perhaps commanders should permanently have the ability to see the other units radars as it's own. that way anything in range for that unit to fire upon would be in range for the commander to target.

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Re: Heroes and Commander Ideas

Post by Deathguise » 21 Nov 2007, 00:49

1984Softy wrote:As far as I know the MK2-3-4 commanders don't change anything now.
The MK2-3-4 commanders have increasing amounts of bodypoints, but due to how their enabled by research no extra bodypoints are received.
psychopompos wrote:the command turret is already one of the tougher units is it not?
Even though commanders are the most durable unit, the volume of firepower that the later weapons put out makes even the heaviest units appear as if clad in tinfoil - and although making the commander use a few assigned units as meat shields is a good idea it won't matter to a determined opponent who may use vtols or artilllery to bypass those meatshields.

So increasing durability and armor is not the best solution but it's a quick and most likely painless one.
ouch wrote:Perhaps commanders should permanently have the ability to see the other units radars as it's own. that way anything in range for that unit to fire upon would be in range for the commander to target.
I agree more communicatiom between commander and assigned units is needed.
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