old rules get thrown out the window?

[Jorzi]

He actually did apply it and let us test it. That's why it's called a beta. You don't need a pre-release for a beta because it is a pre-release.

[zany]

He actually did apply it and let us test it. That's why it's called a beta. You don't need a pre-release for a beta because it is a pre-release.

it was just made so how did they apply it? #3344

[Berg]

He actually did apply it and let us test it

Sure lets test it.

which means that the HQ limiting design is no longer a good idea.

I have no issue with adding templates But to remove the need for a structure to accommodate this is not logical...

[Jorzi]

Ah, you were talking about #3344? Oh well....
But yeah I guess premade templates bring up a discussion about the "need hq for designing" rule.

[NoQ]

Putting the difficulties of implementation aside, the way of making saved templates work without changing the rules is obvious: we just freeze the list of templates available in the factory and update it only once HQ is available. We can even grey out some templates, with a tooltip like "build an HQ to make this template available" or "build additional factory modules to make this template available" etc.

[Emdek]

NoQ, such a things is what I'm planning to do, but AFAIK there are no chances that it could get into 3.1.
Anyway, what about disabling by default stored templates for now (with ability to re enable them using mods or something)?

[cybersphinx]

@Zany: do you want stored templates or not?

at the cost of breaking the game from how it was? no.
the old moderator that was banned warned all of us about what they are doing to the game and it is all true

If you want to whine about what we're doing, wait for 3.1.0 (though even that is only a milestone of the way to the next version and not the way it's meant to be played™), declarations of how the sky is falling over every beta (or commit) are just annoying.

[effigy]

IIRC I voted to keep the requirement of a CC to design units. If we're allowed mg tower/bunker with out CC, I don't really see a difference in game play. The difference is in continuity of a legacy, and further distancing MP from campaign. I think if we had unit design without CC they'll be a surge of whiners about rushing been a non-strategy, though :/

Surely there's an agreeable way to have our templates and eat them,too?

[JDW]

#3337This is getting out of hand. I regret caving in to the purists on this one. We're adding a ton of ugly exceptions to the code so that a few individuals should not have to learn anything new.

it was good for the game for over 10 years and now you think you can just make up new rules?

You're quoting what someone says out of context and trying to mislead everyone.

It's pretty clear now, you're just one of those people who want to turn the community against the work that goes on here.

If you prefer the game as it was ten years ago, then forget about this project and just go play the original version which is still available.

[Per]

To clear that up: For 3.1, we will keep piling on the hacks to make the droid design rules like they used to be. Vexed's patch works fine in that regard. For the next release after that, however, things may change to improve gameplay and consistency. Just because it was one way once does not mean it will stay that way forever.

[Rman Virgil]

.......

Surely there's an agreeable way to have our templates and eat them, too?

I don' t see why not. Afterall this ain't RL & WZ is not sweet potato pie.

Plus like someone said recently WZ is not a museum exhibit.
.

[aubergine]

Having played WZ for a few years now, I have to say that I find 3.1 much better in many, many ways. Sure, the truck thing in Beta 7 is annoying, but that's what betas are for - to make sure issues get picked up before the main release of 3.1, and from what I've seen over the past few months the devs put a hell of a lot of work in to fixing things.

Having looked at some of the C++ code myself, I can see why various things break as changes are made. There's lots of old and crufty code in that wasn't really designed with long-term maintainability in mind, much of it looks quite rushed as I imagine Pumpkin were under a lot of pressure to get the game released back when it was a commercial project. The current devs are doing a great job of improving the game despite that.

I'd rather the game keeps getting better, even if that means we run in to some bugs and issues in the betas. And, ultimately, things will change over time to keep the game fresh. I'm more than happy to go through a spate of bugs to get to somewhere that's better in the long run, I just wish other people could see past the end of their nose and realise that these betas are just steps towards a better future. And I don't mind seeing a future version break in lots of ways due to significant architectural changes being made to improve the codebase and make it more manageable. It has to happen at some point, and I'll be there helping report bugs when it does.

If people prefer the older versions then they are still available for download and the code can easily be forked should anyone wish to do so. It bugs me when people get so irate about things breaking in the betas, as if they think it's supposed to be 100% perfect or something.

Personally, I'm loving where the game is headed - both as a JS scripter and a gamer. I find WZ to be very re-playable game, which is more than can be said for *all* the other games on my computer or phone!

P.S. I love the stored templates thing - it's frikkin awesome!

P.P.S. Why not just have something in rules.js that pre-populates the truck template? So it's there even before you get access to the designer?

[Staff]

This is troll bait.
Look at this post viewtopic.php?f=1&t=9154#p98588
That tells everyone what the status was.

Locking topic.