whole reballance suggestion

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Sonsalt
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Re: whole reballance suggestion

Post by Sonsalt » 22 Aug 2007, 19:16

I object. It is a question of price. Hightec units cost a lot more than lowtec ones. Sometimes I like to rush the enemy with cheaper units, or use them as a decoy. Fully upgraded, even a MG can do quite a damage.

If you deactivate certain inventions, you also have to upgrade them in the build inventory.

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Watermelon
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Re: whole reballance suggestion

Post by Watermelon » 22 Aug 2007, 23:18

I think all hightec stuff except weapons are useless:

1.body:
a lot more power cost, uber long build time, plus slow-as-hell speed.

2.armor:
your tank takes 10 less damage per hit now...

3.propulsion:
your tank moves 1-5% faster now...

bormoth:
you can download Giel's nightly and extract the txt's,then use the tool 'wz stats tools' I made to alter the stats of weapons,bodies and other stuff.
tasks postponed until the trunk is relatively stable again.

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Re: whole reballance suggestion

Post by Giel » 22 Aug 2007, 23:22

Watermelon wrote: you can download Giel's nightly and extract the txt's,then use the tool 'wz stats tools' I made to alter the stats of weapons,bodies and other stuff.
Well if all you need is those text files then you might as well grab them from these locations:
http://svn.gna.org/svn/warzone/trunk/data/stats/
http://svn.gna.org/svn/warzone/trunk/data/mp/stats/
"First make sure it works good, only then make it look good." -- Giel
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bormoth
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Re: whole reballance suggestion

Post by bormoth » 23 Aug 2007, 06:58

Just a very quick side note:  Deprecating weapons through research would serve warzone greatly.  For instance, by the time you get the Heavy Cannon, the Light MG is useless.  By the time you get the Gauss cannon the Heavy Cannon is useless.  So deprecating certain technologies through research will remove the technologies completely and make them unavailable to build.

This will also help the AI since how many times have we seen them build twin-MG vipers late game?
It's due inbalances. :-[ Look at starcraft or warcraft there are many units(not so many then in wz) but all of the unical and it doesn't metter when you get them.
If you deactivate certain inventions, you also have to upgrade them in the build inventory.
I wouldn't deactivate nothing I only rearrange existing tech to better fit for balance no more.
think all hightec stuff except weapons are useless:

1.body:
a lot more power cost, uber long build time, plus slow-as-hell speed.

2.armor:
your tank takes 10 less damage per hit now...

3.propulsion:
your tank moves 1-5% faster now...
1.difference  of cost between bodies are 10-20 energy it isn't large.If you ment dragon and wywern then it was tweaked,speed isn't slow(body weight doesn't reduses speed).Build time of each unit is proportional it's cost so they build 2 times slower then others
2.I used damge  after armor=damage*0.94^armor. there was misstype, i ment not 32 and 67 damage reduction i ment 32% and 67% damage reduction
you can download Giel's nightly and extract the txt's,then use the tool 'wz stats tools' I made to alter the stats of weapons,bodies and other stuff.
This I can but I can't change speed formulae.

Second how to use your patch?
and how about links for files nessesary for extraction.
and where i can get 'wz stats tools'
Last edited by bormoth on 23 Aug 2007, 07:23, edited 1 time in total.

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Watermelon
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Re: whole reballance suggestion

Post by Watermelon » 23 Aug 2007, 12:51

bormoth wrote: It's due inbalances. :-[ Look at starcraft or warcraft there are many units(not so many then in wz) but all of the unical and it doesn't metter when you get them.I wouldn't deactivate nothing I only rearrange existing tech to better fit for balance no more.1.difference  of cost between bodies are 10-20 energy it isn't large.If you ment dragon and wywern then it was tweaked,speed isn't slow(body weight doesn't reduses speed).Build time of each unit is proportional it's cost so they build 2 times slower then others
There is a weird price increase when installing propulsion(the propulsion costs is proportional to body costs),which will make the price difference between early bodies and late ones significant.
Second how to use your patch?
and how about links for files nessesary for extraction.
and where i can get 'wz stats tools'
the patch is a diff against the source code,so you cant use it without acquiring a copy of trunk source and compile it yourself.But compiling source is rather complicated for windows users.Both armor and speed formula change will require source changes though.

wz stats tools:
index.php?topic=889.0

Grab the txt's from the url Giel postedl,or download Giel's nightly builds/installers if you want to test the changes.
tasks postponed until the trunk is relatively stable again.

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Re: whole reballance suggestion

Post by bormoth » 30 Aug 2007, 14:54

Sorry for long absence,have some problems with internet.
Sorry but I think I can't make playable test mod of rebalanced WZ,because I have much work now,but I'll finish my sugguestion.
If someone makes mod post it here(or at least link).

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Re: whole reballance suggestion

Post by Watermelon » 03 Sep 2007, 07:20

bormoth wrote: Sorry for long absence,have some problems with internet.
Sorry but I think I can't make playable test mod of rebalanced WZ,because I have much work now,but I'll finish my sugguestion.
If someone makes mod post it here(or at least link).
I can try but it seems the data fields in your suggestion table in wiki is not lined up properly,so I am not quite sure which value is for which field.(e.g:the bodies output/armor)
tasks postponed until the trunk is relatively stable again.

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Re: whole reballance suggestion

Post by bormoth » 03 Sep 2007, 09:41

About armor types there was misstype, it was corrected.
Also formated Anti building arty.
If you make different atributes then sugguested please pm or write them here, so i could change them in my sugguestion.Feel free to write here if you can not understand someting in my sugguestion.  ;)

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Re: whole reballance suggestion

Post by Watermelon » 03 Sep 2007, 17:03

bormoth wrote: About armor types there was misstype, it was corrected.
Also formated Anti building arty.
If you make different atributes then sugguested please pm or write them here, so i could change them in my sugguestion.Feel free to write here if you can not understand someting in my sugguestion.  ;)
Some of the values just dont look right,like the weight of weapons in warzone ranging from 100 to 200000 or so,but all weapons in your suggestion wiki entry have <1000 weight.The engine output values are wrong too,the value should be at least 10000,or all tanks will become really slow.
tasks postponed until the trunk is relatively stable again.

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Re: whole reballance suggestion

Post by bormoth » 04 Sep 2007, 06:35

Watermelon wrote: Some of the values just dont look right,like the weight of weapons in warzone ranging from 100 to 200000 or so,but all weapons in your suggestion wiki entry have <1000 weight.The engine output values are wrong too,the value should be at least 10000,or all tanks will become really slow.
max speed=PPRM*body energy output*max(1, (body weight)/(turret weight+propulsion weight))
  max speed on inclained surface=PPRM*body energy output*max(1, 0.75* (body weight)/
                                            /(turret weight+propulsion weight))
Body weight is actually not body weight,but it's weight limit(Look speed formulae).second I think it is non
actual make such large weights,so for weapon ranges(from 300 to 10000).
maximum speed avaible = Propulsion power meter*energy output;
If 636 maximum speed for fastest viechle is slow then body energy output can be scaled;

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Re: whole reballance suggestion

Post by Watermelon » 05 Sep 2007, 10:21

bormoth wrote: Body weight is actually not body weight,but it's weight limit(Look speed formulae).second I think it is non
actual make such large weights,so for weapon ranges(from 300 to 10000).
maximum speed avaible = Propulsion power meter*energy output;
If 636 maximum speed for fastest viechle is slow then body energy output can be scaled;
You mean scaling down all weight/output values?
tasks postponed until the trunk is relatively stable again.

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Re: whole reballance suggestion

Post by bormoth » 08 Sep 2007, 08:13

Watermelon wrote: You mean scaling down all weight/output values?
No I ment increassing(decreasing)energy output on some percent(for example for 10%) of all bodies to make maximum speed good.

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Re: whole reballance suggestion

Post by Watermelon » 08 Sep 2007, 09:41

bormoth wrote: No I ment increassing(decreasing)energy output on some percent(for example for 10%) of all bodies to make maximum speed good.
could you please replace the percentage with actual values(original + percentage increase/increase)?cos it's nearly impossible to tell which value(s) is in percentage and which one(s) is in actual 'units' in your chart.
tasks postponed until the trunk is relatively stable again.

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Re: whole reballance suggestion

Post by bormoth » 09 Sep 2007, 07:38

Watermelon wrote: could you please replace the percentage with actual values(original + percentage increase/increase)?cos it's nearly impossible to tell which value(s) is in percentage and which one(s) is in actual 'units' in your chart.
All values are absolute except accuracy(to hit) witch is also absolute, but shows how often u hit in persents.
I ment that if fastest viecle will be too slow or fast you can scale.PRPM of propulsions is also percentage characteristic(example scaling on 10%(to slow down) original energy output of leopard is 600 new energy output is 600*(1-10%/100%)=540,same for other bodies)

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Re: whole reballance suggestion

Post by bormoth » 20 Sep 2007, 07:31

Today finished upgrades (feel free to look on first post)

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