Long term skirmishes - player immersion

[J.Vaughan]

What if the saved files were stored online? I don't know! lol But I thought I would be a great Idea... If we could get a stats server up I don't see why we couldn't use different techniques to sync the files from online ect...

It was a rough Idea... It has it's quirks... If the honor code worked I think it would be a great system. Hmmm Kind of reminds me of communism. No body thinks that would be fun? lol  ???

[GiGaBaNE]

listen, i been thinking.....we are definatly wanting too much out of this game...i think we should just let the devs get on with tidying it up to a neat lil package..once its done and dusted, then maybe we can hope they will continue giving us thier precious time in the form of an actual 2120 rather than the pipe dream that never happened. lol call it whatever you want, like they did with sup com cos the couldnt get the rights for the TA name

then all our little dreams of what could be and what should be can be put into that, using modern code and modeling engines..

yes/no ?

[kage]

listen, i been thinking.....we are definatly wanting too much out of this game...i think we should just let the devs get on with tidying it up to a neat lil package..once its done and dusted, then maybe we can hope they will continue giving us thier precious time in the form of an actual 2120 rather than the pipe dream that never happened. lol call it whatever you want, like they did with sup com cos the couldnt get the rights for the TA name

then all our little dreams of what could be and what should be can be put into that, using modern code and modeling engines..

i love to reiterate: this is open source... many people prefer modifying existing, working codebases rather than start from scratch, since items get removed from the TODO list in far less time. using a new model format doesn't require us to start from scratch, no give up the old one, and most of all, there is no one "in charge", and there are no restrictions on how and why people can contribute -- even if all of the devs do move on to a 2120-ish project, there's absolutely nothing to stop someone else from hacking at the source and for us to start this discussion all over again, ad infinitum.

[J.Vaughan]

I mentioned that I think we should be realistic and use alot of the features we already have to improve the game. However that doesn't mean that we can't all throw out ideas... It's a good base to see the options of what can be done and what would be entirely impossible without restructuring the game. Some of the ideas are simply far out there. Mine is borderline, but it's an idea that can go into the trash bin if it proves to long and tedious to be able to actually complete.

Long story short...
Throwing out all possibilities and courses of action + what we would like to see = Brainstorming

[GiGaBaNE]

i guess what i mean is that this game is very old now, and even tho its now open source, i think we need to decide the objectives for a "final release". because if we dont then "ad infinitum" may eventually become "bored now, dont wanna do any more".
i just think that the main ambition of the project could be to give us a nice tidy package that is net friendly and mod friendly, and all our wonderfull fantasies of what the game 'could be' can be expressed in mod form.

not only is it possible for the coders to get burn out, but i for one am the kind that likes to find a game i enjoy and just add it to my archive.

appologies if my tone sounds more negative than its meant to, im just used to projects having a beginning a middle and an end.

I include myself in this also, but too many of us are asking for too many things and the devs are forced to bounce from one idea to the next, when really all we need is the ability to mod the game in easy fashion.

[DevUrandom]

"we"? Who is that?

[GiGaBaNE]

"we" = the devs (that would be your ilk) + the players/forum audience (the rest of us here) 

[J.Vaughan]

...when really all we need is the ability to mod the game in easy fashion.

I think that thats not too complicated as it is now...Theres plenty of mods out there for warzone. As far as expecting too much people wanted to know what to do with the campaign mode. It was an idea. A more feasible one would just allow scripts, have a map maker build a map giving the cpu some huge advantages and scripting in some strategies while two human players can gang up on the CPU online. Things like time limits and what not could make the campaign mode more challenging.

An even easier way of connecting the dots... (+ I think thats what the Warzone 2100 Devs originally had in mind for campaign mode, they just never got around to it before pumpkin died.)

Just my opinion...

[commondragon]

I have an idea.....

Im sorry if this may sound stupid/out of place/at the wrong time :p....But it seems like it would fit, and basicly I thought of it right when I read the first post. This would probably have to be done when ALOT more people play it, perhaps?

There are some "generals" (like you know, generals) Picked by the host/the host themself. There is a large world map filled with diffrent maps, and each general has a faction of their own creation on it. Each maps is a peice of territory that any general can have. Some can also giv bonuses. The generals can fight on these maps, but they are mainly using other players who go on missions created by the generals. They can be territory capture/attack, Defense, Destroy certain units/buildings, recource collecting, extra recource shipping, scouting, rescue, quick strike ect. Ther can be up to 30 units transported at a time, and it takes longer and longer the farther away the units are. Reserch can carry over to adjacent maps, and the reserch level gets lower and lower as u go to each new map. Your general can stock up units in a territory and send them to players in transports (to start with or reinforcements). Generals can also make descriptions on their missions to tell the player what exactly to do.

Generals would start with 1 large territory to make their main base on. IT would be private unless it is a defend the HQ type thing.

When a player finnishes a mission, they
A: Have all their units givien to the faction's AI
B: retreat their units
C: remain and fight if another player threatens their base

This would also include a new unit: Battery carrier. A tank that carriers power, depening on its upgrades. Its slow and weak.

MISSION EXAMPLES:
Territory capture: MAke a small base on this HQ. Get a few factorys in as well
Units: 3 trucks
Objective: Make an hq on the base and 2 factorys

Attack object EX1: we cleared a path to a main tank stock on the enemy's, make a qucik strike and destroy as many as possible
Units: 7 VTOL Tank killer, 5 mini pod hover units, 2 scouters, 14 mortars, 2 trucks (Reinforcements MAY come)
Objective: Kill at least 30 units

Attack object EX2: The enemy tech centers have allowed vTOLS near our weak points, tearing up our defenses, kill them now.
Units: 2 trucks, 13 heavy cannon tanks, 7 machine gun cyborgs
Objective: Kill all enemy reaserch centers on the map

Recource collect: Make a small reource colletion area here (It has high oil, make sure to use alot fo defenses)
Units: 16 cyborg engineers, 2 cyborg transports, 12 cyborg heavy cannon
Objective: Create oil derrecks on all oil sources

Recource Shipping: Take 20000 Charge of power to the semi-large map in the north corner. The enemy has it surrounded and therefore it cannot be directly shipped. We have 3 other commanders fighting through a bottleneck. Wait until they get through and then ship the power
Units: 20 Super heavy battery charge dragon hover, 10 heavy cannon Vengance tracks
Objective: Get Batterys (Minimum 20) to the other side of the map.



Im sorry if this seems too much like changing the entire multiplayer portion of the game. IT seems like a good idea to me. I know the dev's would probably not want to do that either. And another thing being that I am sorry for all the spelling errors. Its kinda late here.

[Watermelon]

The problem is the level design is very time consuming(it will take alot more time than making a skirmish map with minimal predefined units and objects),also mission objectives require extensive knowledge in warzone scripting,because the map editor cannot generate vlo/slo scripts with desired conditions,actions,triggers I assume.I am pretty sure Warzone scripting is capable of doing all those mission objective types you mentioned,but unfortunately most of the developers are not very familiar with it.

[Olrox]

  Yeah, and we would need to find someone that already have this knowledge AND have time to sacrifice.

  But I didn't quite well get the idea of "Generals". What would they do when the players are not doing missions (or actually doing)? And what purpose battery charges would have other than missions? I like your ideas, but as watermelon said, it takes time to do maps with the level of details required to player x ai games. My first idea (you have read it already didn't you? ;D) was for more extensive multiplayer games, with an end and balance changing all the time. It would take time, alright, but would not require creating maps with bases, waypoints and units etc. The players would have their time to construct their advanced base wich is about to be attacked (5min without enemies, but only 1~4 trucks [to be set early as difficulty options for the host menu, along with number of missions, time etc]), leaving the map creating easier, as both players are human (or at least should be  ;D), and they should build their own bases.

[Per]

I am much in favour of eventually adding more types of multiplayer games, especially campaign-type multiplayer. However, there are a few things that need to be in place before we can talk seriously about this, a resurrected map editor being the most important part of the puzzle.

[Olrox]

  Functional map editor = more player made maps = Longer multiplayer campaigns (endurance) = more fun.
  If scripting-ignorant, creative folks like me would be able to make maps with proper software, it would be very luccrative for the community. Or at least I think ;D

[commondragon]

@watermelon: You wouldn't have to design any levels. You would have a layout of the current scouted map for your faction and you click a few things, type a description, select a few units, and u have a mission. Plus some of that would be impossible to script in, I think. Mainly the world map/Generals and players.


@Olrox: The generals fight too, they just make stuff for their players as well.
And the battery charges, when reaching the specified map, will give each combatant a large power boost.


Yes I know this would take time. I was suggesting this because if the devs would like it they could do it while they did other stuffs. Its big, but could be like an on-the-side I guess, due to the fact that it would require soo much work.

[Olrox]

You wouldn't have to design any levels. You would have a layout of the current scouted map for your faction and you click a few things, type a description, select a few units, and u have a mission. Plus some of that would be impossible to script in, I think.

  You didn't mention abra kadabra, nor hocus pocus. ;D