WZ mini mod?

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r34ch
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WZ mini mod?

Post by r34ch » 13 Apr 2007, 11:14

WZ mini mod, (sorry if this is in the wrong place)

Well I was just thinking, after reading a few threads, about how useless some things are in WZ and how some things feel as if they are missing... Then I thought wouldn't it be nice if someone made a small mod to add some of these features? I've never dabbled in WZ modding myself and i'm too swamped in life to try, but i'm sure it would take less than half a day to simply fix a few things and balance out a few things and release it as a beta or something. Then new features could be implemented etc over time. This way you can still play the original and play a separate revamped and balanced version
  • Rather that a construction VTOL, how about the radar upgrade for a VTOL, simply a big range of vision and can detect vehicles a bit outside of it in the fog, like radars do now?
  • Beef up some of the pointless weapon upgrades, needler auto cannon etc
  • Make VTOL's slightly harder to kill as to be a viable option again
  • Make cyborgs useful.
  • Make the half track upgrade better, since no one ever uses it
  • Extend the range of inferno bunkers a bit more, since they can't move to get closer
  • Make napalm bomblets or something for VTOLs that even if not useful as heat resistant upgrades are developed, at least look damn cool. I think our PC's can handle those sort of effects these days
  • Make better VTOL' specific anti-tank weapons, no crappy lancers etc since half of them miss as well as the fact that they're a one shot per run weapon
So basically revamp the weapons that seem pointless, since they were put in for a reason and have unique pro's and con's, even if the original developers managed to screw up the implementation so that all they have at the moment are mainly con's...

Has anyone any thoughts on this or any ideas as to who would like to do a mini mod like this?

Edit: Giel: use list-tags to increase readability
Last edited by Giel on 13 Apr 2007, 20:24, edited 1 time in total.

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Watermelon
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Re: WZ mini mod?

Post by Watermelon » 13 Apr 2007, 11:46

r34ch wrote: 1*Rather that a construction VTOL, how about the radar upgrade for a VTOL, simply a big range of vision and can detect vehicles a bit outside of it in the fog, like radars do now?
2*Beef up some of the pointless weapon upgrades, needler auto cannon etc
3*Make VTOL's slightly harder to kill as to be a viable option again
4*Make cyborgs useful.
5*Make the half track upgrade better, since no one ever uses it
6*Extend the range of inferno bunkers a bit more, since they can't move to get closer
7*Make napalm bomblets or something for VTOLs that even if not useful as heat resistant upgrades are developed, at least look damn cool. I think our PC's can handle those sort of effects these days
8*Make better VTOL' specific anti-tank weapons, no crappy lancers etc since half of them miss as well as the fact that they're a one shot per run weapon
1.requires source changes...sort of research to do sensor component replacement
2.agreed. 80% of the weapons in warzone are pretty pointless,since everyone stick to the relatively imbalanced ones...
3.vtol already became alot harder to kill in trunk(development version),they are so hard to kill that I had to enlarge their bounding radius to make them easier to hit...
4.they are harder to hit in trunk too,but still pretty useless due to their costs/low hp/low damage
5.half-track is useless indeed...
6.maybe the flame weapon is just a bit underpowered overally:'melee' range,slow refire rate,no bonus hp etc etc
7.can be implemented without source changes I think,we just need new effect image/animation and some new entry for such weapons.
8.more ammo might help...
tasks postponed until the trunk is relatively stable again.

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Re: WZ mini mod?

Post by themousemaster » 13 Apr 2007, 14:04

r34ch wrote: *Rather that a construction VTOL, how about the radar upgrade for a VTOL, simply a big range of vision and can detect vehicles a bit outside of it in the fog, like radars do now?
*Beef up some of the pointless weapon upgrades, needler auto cannon etc
*Make VTOL's slightly harder to kill as to be a viable option again
*Make cyborgs useful.
*Make the half track upgrade better, since no one ever uses it
*Extend the range of inferno bunkers a bit more, since they can't move to get closer
*Make napalm bomblets or something for VTOLs that even if not useful as heat resistant upgrades are developed, at least look damn cool. I think our PC's can handle those sort of effects these days
*Make better VTOL' specific anti-tank weapons, no crappy lancers etc since half of them miss as well as the fact that they're a one shot per run weapon
1)  I honestly don't know what that means... it sounds like you want the "flying truck" replaced with a "flying sensor", though a flying truck doesn't exist.
2)  Weapon balance is part of the Warzone Rez project.  Granted, as it stands, the only legitimate use for the Assault Cannon is to then research the TwinAssaultCannon, but it's being looked at to my knowledge.  Perhaps not *now*, as fixes/features > balance, but I'm sure all weapons will be at least looked at.
3)  What watermelon said.
4)  Methods for making cyborgs (besides the super-cybrog designs) useful are under discussion. I'd prefer the "reduce their cost" option, but whatever is decided, they aren't being pushed aside.
5)  I use it ;p.  Really though, with the new hit-routines under development, half-tracks may end up seeing use simply as a way to avoid missle weapons (without sacrificing much HP over a track)
6)  I disagree.  I find flame bunkers to be useful, if properly used.  Anti-thermal armor is rarely a priority research for CPU's (for humans its a matter of flavor obviously), so they do decent damage; the trick is in using them.  For example, they make great bunkers to be placed just around the corner of a cliffside-chokepoint, in a place where the only positiont hey can be fired upon is one in which they can fire back.  Also, flamer bunkers are extremely good to intersperse within a base to deter cybrog-transport assaults.  Also, flame weapons are not a "useless" research, as the same line leads to those wonderful incendiary indirect and VTOL weapons.
7)  Erm... in #2, you ask to upgrade pointless weapons, now you are suggesting adding pointless weapons for the single reason of looking cool?  Why not just improve graphics of existing weapons?
8)  Against fast-tanks, I'll still take my missle-style weapons as that is, after all, their design.  Against heavy (slow) tanks, there already is a great weapon:  It's called the HEAP bomb.  2-3 successful hits from them will not only kill the heavy tank, but the 4 closest ones to it as well.

r34ch
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Re: WZ mini mod?

Post by r34ch » 13 Apr 2007, 21:25

1) sorry i was referring to the other guy who created a thread wanting that, i just think an 'eye in the sky' would be good for early probing, would source changes be hard? I personally could live without this idea, since it was only an idea

2)  I understand if balancing is not your top priority with the bug hunting etc

3)  Maybe its a while since i gave VTOL's a chance, i remember they sucked in the PS1 version

4)  I would also prefer the "reduce their cost" option

5)  New hit-routines sound good, i read somewhere that they're already integrated to a certain degree, but i still find that lancers etc pwn weak hover vehicles, I opt speed over durability for scouting thinking that they could evade missles to a degree, but they barely make it past the first turret, so i wouldn't mind if the hit-routines where expanded on, I'd like to see half tracks being used again

6)  I agree that if you place them at the bottom of a cliff around a corner/chokepoint they are effective, that's how i use them, but i still think they're range is rather limited, nearly everything can out shoot them. I personally find flame weapons are not bad tech's to research, they are above cyborg techs and VTOL's stuff on my list

7)  Ok sorry don't know why ii added that pointless line of even if was useless... I was really requesting a napalm strike basically, it would be effective vs. clustered units/cyborgs and buildings etc, basically a VTOL weapon with a large area of effect/spread, but still look really cool

8)  I'm not saying missle VTOL weapons are bad, i just think it'd be nice if they were moddeled slightly better for a VTOL and given a specific name rather than "VTOL "  yea HEAP owns, still bit weird having a "High Explosive" yet "Armour Piercing" bomb load, usually its one ore the other...

Also im playing campaign mode again, i find that there a few tech's that actively replaces old techs, so im stuck with a ton of machine gun tech, im only at assault gun but ive still got heavy, twin, machine and some other one... They just clutter up the design screen...

But then again that's what appeals to me about wz, the wealth of options.... So in fact, rather than replacing weapons as some do, why not make sub tabs, i.e. T1, T2, T3 it would make navigation better, but i'm guessing that would take ages to modify the source code...

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lav_coyote25
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Re: WZ mini mod?

Post by lav_coyote25 » 13 Apr 2007, 22:46

ummm... t1, t2, t3  tabs already exist.... right when your choosing your map etc.... 
‎"to prepare for disaster is to invite it, to not prepare for disaster is a fools choice" -me (kim-lav_coyote25-metcalfe) - it used to be attributed to unknown - but adding the last bit , it now makes sense.

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Re: WZ mini mod?

Post by r34ch » 14 Apr 2007, 01:17

lav_coyote25 wrote: ummm... t1, t2, t3  tabs already exist.... right when your choosing your map etc.... 
I mean in the designing a new vehicle bit, when choosing the weapon system. You choose a body, then propulsion, then a weapon system, but it just seems that all the wealth of weapons flood the screen, and it would be nice to categorise the weapons by T# rather than sifting through a ton of old T1 and T2 stuff to find a T3 weapon... Is that just me being picky?




And to save making a new topic...

I've seen screen shots of units in skirmishes being Blue instead of the dull red, is there no way of customising campaign mode a little more by letting you choose your color?

I also see these mods and extra files, apparently there's a better AI file that was released by pumpkin studios... Is this used in the game already?
Last edited by r34ch on 14 Apr 2007, 01:52, edited 1 time in total.

Azraiel
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Re: WZ mini mod?

Post by Azraiel » 14 Apr 2007, 06:52

I like to see it grouped up by class. Like, machine guns, cannons, lasers, AA, rockets, missles, cannons, railguns, etc

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Re: WZ mini mod?

Post by The Noid » 14 Apr 2007, 12:44

I so agree on that grouping those would be very, very nice. But I think that's even more important for the research tab. The research list sometimes spans 5 or 6 tabs, that's just horrible!

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Re: WZ mini mod?

Post by Watermelon » 14 Apr 2007, 13:19

the new hit system is implemented successfully and it's in trunk for some time now.Though it seems only linux users benefit from the trunk/svn,since compiling trunk under linux is alot easier than doing it under windows,at least I havent seen a bug report concerning trunk bugs from windows users on gna site.Generally the trunk needs more testing from users imo,cos most of us dont have time to run trunk version for a couple of hours to squash some new bugs introduced by recent commits.Maybe a nightly build with debug symbols(not necessarily updates every day,it's merely a name) for windows might help,so users can try out new features at the costs of stability,but they can also provide useful minidumps whenever they trigger a bug/crash.

Changing color in campaign:
you cant change the color in campaign afaik,because the game gives a player with certain 'Id' an arbitrary color in campaign,unlike the skirmish/multiplayer mode.

Categorized weapon classes in design screen:
that's something I can address,but I doubt there is enough space left in the design interface to contain/add such amount of weapon class icons/buttons.
tasks postponed until the trunk is relatively stable again.

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Re: WZ mini mod?

Post by DevUrandom » 14 Apr 2007, 14:04

Watermelon wrote: the new hit system is implemented successfully and it's in trunk for some time now.Though it seems only linux users benefit from the trunk/svn,since compiling trunk under linux is alot easier than doing it under windows,at least I havent seen a bug report concerning trunk bugs from windows users on gna site.Generally the trunk needs more testing from users imo,cos most of us dont have time to run trunk version for a couple of hours to squash some new bugs introduced by recent commits.Maybe a nightly build with debug symbols(not necessarily updates every day,it's merely a name) for windows might help,so users can try out new features at the costs of stability,but they can also provide useful minidumps whenever they trigger a bug/crash.
Interesting idea. The build itself is no problem, and for the data I think a (v)patch against the 2.0 data would work.
This would however need a (this?) server with all the dependencies installed. Maybe we can kill mp3 and jpeg support and thus reduce the deps a little bit. I'll try to work out a script that does the patching and installer creation automatically.

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Re: WZ mini mod?

Post by Giel » 15 Apr 2007, 17:24

DevUrandom wrote: Interesting idea. The build itself is no problem, and for the data I think a (v)patch against the 2.0 data would work.
This would however need a (this?) server with all the dependencies installed. Maybe we can kill mp3 and jpeg support and thus reduce the deps a little bit. I'll try to work out a script that does the patching and installer creation automatically.
Well seems like a good idea to me as well.

As for JPEG support I think we should just drop it, since mostly everyone capable of creating JPEGs are just as capable of creating PNGs.

The MP3s are only used in the playlist code AFAIK know so should be fairly easy dropped. This would obviously result in people not being able to use MP3s in their playlists.
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r34ch
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Re: WZ mini mod?

Post by r34ch » 15 Apr 2007, 19:42

Giel wrote: This would obviously result in people not being able to use MP3s in their playlists.
Im sure most people have found the delights of winamp etc, it doesn't use as much sys resources as WMP

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Re: WZ mini mod?

Post by DevUrandom » 15 Apr 2007, 21:43

Giel wrote: The MP3s are only used in the playlist code AFAIK know so should be fairly easy dropped. This would obviously result in people not being able to use MP3s in their playlists.
A while ago we had a poll (which I can't find anymore... did it get deleted?) asking how many people use mp3s for ingame music. It was clearly stated that no one was using mp3s or everyone could use oggs as well.

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Re: WZ mini mod?

Post by Kyor » 16 Apr 2007, 01:13

lol, vtols are strong.

Make lots of them with bug body and vtol cannons( or bunker busters), into a T3 Game, put them attached to a Strike tower, and defend your base wiselly =D
Last edited by Kyor on 17 Apr 2007, 02:09, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: WZ mini mod?

Post by Giel » 16 Apr 2007, 01:17

DevUrandom wrote: A while ago we had a poll (which I can't find anymore... did it get deleted?) asking how many people use mp3s for ingame music. It was clearly stated that no one was using mp3s or everyone could use oggs as well.
I've got a patch ready and waiting to remove MP3 support. I've just sent it to the mailinglist so people have their chance to object it.
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