Get rid of artillery shooting straight up?

[Zarel]

READ BEFORE VOTING

Currently, weapons can only shoot between their minimum range and their maximum range, with one strange exception:

Indirect (artillery) tanks (and only tanks, not structures) can shoot things inside their minimum range. They do this by shooting straight up. I've been thinking about this, and I don't think this is desirable, for several reasons:

1. Shooting straight up is extremely inaccurate. Normally, with an enemy nearby, you shoot sideways and your bullets will hit the enemy fairly quickly. If you shoot up, though, you need to wait for the bullet to go up and then back down, by which time the enemy will usually have moved out of the way.

This is exacerbated by the fact that artillery often have fairly long reload times, so by shooting straight up you've wasted a fairly important shot.

2. Shooting straight up will damage yourself. As of right now, all artillery weapons have a fair amount of splash damage. If you shoot straight up, you will hit and damage yourself. While, at the same time, not really hurting your opponent at all, since, as noted, they usually move out of the way.

3. Because of the above, many users consider it to be fairly annoying behavior.

4. It's inconsistent. "Minimum range" means "minimum range"; it shouldn't mean "minimum range unless you're an artillery tank, in which case you have exceptional special behavior". Per advocates fewer exceptions, and I (usually) agree. Not to mention it's inconsistent with artillery structures, which do not have such behavior.


The behavior might have made sense in the original Warzone, where the projectile code gave you a decent chance of hitting the opponent, and artillery weapons did 5-10% of the splash damage they do now.

[TVR]

Given the lack of armour granted by the artillery turrets, it probably is better to shoot at units that are overrunning the siege position, than to sit there and be destroyed.

However, the maximum angle of elevation and minimum velocity of the projectile should have realistic bounds, this is the only way to enforce a minimum range.

[Zarel]

Given the lack of armour granted by the artillery turrets, it probably is better to shoot at units that are overrunning the siege position, than to sit there and be destroyed.

However, the maximum angle of elevation and minimum velocity of the projectile should have realistic bounds, this is the only way to enforce a minimum range.

Remember, these are artillery tanks. It'd usually be easier for them to move 2 tiles away and shoot, than to sit there and shoot straight up and probably miss.

[Mysteryem]

Given the lack of armour granted by the artillery turrets, it probably is better to shoot at units that are overrunning the siege position, than to sit there and be destroyed.

However, the maximum angle of elevation and minimum velocity of the projectile should have realistic bounds, this is the only way to enforce a minimum range.

Remember, these are artillery tanks. It'd usually be easier for them to move 2 tiles away and shoot, than to sit there and shoot straight up and probably miss.

If it's a long range artillery unit then it's most likely very heavy and will therefore move really really slowly. And then, after it has backed up, the whole tank has to turn around. I think they would get shot to bits if they tried to back up so that they could shoot.

Although shooting straight up is rather pointless for -reasonably- short artillery weapons, especially the MRL (or whatever we're calling it now. They might be able to move away and shoot and/or make it out alive. I've even seen MRLs shoot up and have their projectiles explode before they hit the ground.

[Zarel]

True, but you wouldn't think a long-range weapon would be able to angle straight up in the first place.

I admit that part of the reason for this was because of MRL frustrations, though.

[KenAlcock]

Mortars should still shoot straight up. In real life, a mortar never fires at an angle below 45° from horizontal, because it can't, the round must be able to fall down the tube with enough force for the firing pin in the bottom to ignite the primer and fuse. Mortars can fire at near 90° from the horizontal, but not quite (unless some brave soul is holding the tube manually).


Howitzers are both direct and indirect fire weapons. Therefore, when the enemy closes the distance they should operate like a cannon.

[Zarel]

Unfortunately, we don't have such fine-grained control, so it's all-or-nothing, and I'd rather have "nothing".

[TVR]

... these are artillery tanks. It'd usually be easier for them to move 2 tiles away and shoot ...

If that were the case, they would never have been overrun in the first place...

... we don't have such fine-grained control, so it's all-or-nothing, and I'd rather have "nothing". ...

One of the most prominent RPS [hard-counter] design flaws is watching units do NOTHING while they're being systematically destroyed.

As a result of this, Total Annihilation is played more than Supreme Commander to this day, every unit will attempt to shoot at all other units, including tank cannons at aircraft.

[Deus Siddis]

One of the most prominent RPS [hard-counter] design flaws is watching units do NOTHING while they're being systematically destroyed.

As a result of this, Total Annihilation is played more than Supreme Commander to this day, every unit will attempt to shoot at all other units, including tank cannons at aircraft.

Fuckin' aye to that.

Plus in warzone, you can never get your damn artillery to retreat to any kind of safety because they have to be forced to be linked to a "sensor". That's a stupid ass problem on its own but this proposal of removing their close in attack would just dump gasoline on the issue. Now your mobile artillery is somehow even more totally pointless.

[Zarel]

I'd argue that being able to choose where you want your arty to hit makes it quite a bit more useful than stationary arty.

Perhaps I'll just add an exception for MRL/Seraph.

[PkK]

Mortars should still shoot straight up. In real life, a mortar never fires at an angle below 45° from horizontal, because it can't, the round must be able to fall down the tube with enough force for the firing pin in the bottom to ignite the primer and fuse. Mortars can fire at near 90° from the horizontal, but not quite (unless some brave soul is holding the tube manually).

Do mortars have a minimum range?

Philipp

[Zarel]

Yes.

[TVR]

I'd argue that being able to choose where you want your arty to hit makes it quite a bit more useful than stationary arty. ...

That's a very short-sighted advantage:

Re: selecting defenses

It's on my "to do" list.

[Zarel]

Re: selecting defenses

It's on my "to do" list.

It'd only be one structure at a time...

Tanks also have better defense than artillery structures. And can be ordered to hold fire while you choose something important for them to shoot.

[TVR]

... It'd only be one structure at a time ... Tanks ... can be ordered to hold fire while you choose something important for them to shoot. ...

Those are arbitrary restrictions on an otherwise unified interface, removing them is a objective way to improve Warzone 2100.