Commander things

[Terminator]

recenly I've tested commanders with all its bugs and glichs. Cause I like the idia of commanders (they make wz very special game as for me =) ) and want to make it more useful than it right now.

//CMD = commander

Phase 1. Command Relay Center: (CRC)

to get to CMD turret you had to research crc but:
problem 1) to get to turret in res. tree in current version (2.3 beta4) you need just research CRC but not to build it !

obvious question: What for CRC needs us ? Only to res turret ? It doesn't make any sense as a building.

In 1.10 i've tested > you need to research CRC > build CRC: only than turret is available for researching .

problem 2) very high cost of turret (was fixed in time of writing =) )

Phase 2. The Turret:

problem 1) as.units damage retreating, they should not do anything when going to repair
(explaination: while assigned unit going to repair He could be interrupted with CMD orders (in 1.10 he couldn't))

problem 2) what for those turrets upgrades (like II, III, IV) ? I thought that it increase amount assigned units but CMD experience level do it.

problem 3) de-assigning happens sometimes, Don't know why.
Ps: sorry if I didn't found some info in wz guide.

[Zarel]

Phase 1. Command Relay Center: (CRC)

to get to CMD turret you had to research crc but:
problem 1) to get to turret in res. tree in current version (2.3 beta4) you need just research CRC but not to build it !

obvious question: What for CRC needs us ? Only to res turret ? It doesn't make any sense as a building.

In 1.10 i've tested > you need to research CRC > build CRC: only than turret is available for researching .

The change was intentional - it's never explained that buildings can be research prerequisites, so it's a bit confusing. I will be introducing a different use for the Command Relay Center soon - namely, to raise the unit control limit.

problem 2) very high cost of turret (was fixed in time of writing =) )

Like I said, I didn't change the price at all, I just made the price display correctly. The fact that the price is high is not a bug.

Phase 2. The Turret:

problem 1) as.units damage retreating, they should not do anything when going to repair
(explaination: while assigned unit going to repair He could be interrupted with CMD orders (in 1.10 he couldn't))

What do you mean?

problem 2) what for those turrets upgrades (like II, III, IV) ? I thought that it increase amount assigned units but CMD experience level do it.

The upgrades do nothing but increase the amount of HP new commanders have.

problem 3) de-assigning happens sometimes, Don't know why.
Ps: sorry if I didn't found some info in wz guide.

This is known, but hard to debug. I'm not entirely sure why it happens.

Can you provide more details? When assigning fails, do all units attached to the commander get unassigned at the same time? Or is it one at a time?

[Terminator]

Phase 2. The Turret:

problem 1) as.units damage retreating, they should not do anything when going to repair
(explaination: while assigned unit going to repair He could be interrupted with CMD orders (in 1.10 he couldn't))

What do you mean?

when assigned unit set to "retreat at heavy damage" (and if repair facility is available) unit is going for repait no matter what, but if there is no repair facility units just wants to go to base but while they going they taking orders from CMD - that's why they just die on battlefield(if repair fac. is available - units dont taking orders while retreating)
- units should be de-assign from commander and just go to base.(if no repair fac.)

problem 2) what for those turrets upgrades (like II, III, IV) ? I thought that it increase amount assigned units but CMD experience level do it.

The upgrades do nothing but increase the amount of HP new commanders have.

May be rename it ? like " Commander Composite Alloys III"

problem 3) de-assigning happens sometimes, Don't know why.
Ps: sorry if I didn't found some info in wz guide.

This is known, but hard to debug. I'm not entirely sure why it happens.
Can you provide more details? When assigning fails, do all units attached to the commander get unassigned at the same time? Or is it one at a time?

I can only say that no all at the same time. it is "individual" factors cause this.
I always thought that this happens when units stucks cause of pathfinding and CMD going farther form stucked units. Unit like lost on battlefield

I think I can help more if to add more info in console ex: count of assigned units (see screenshot)

[Corporal Punishment]

The de-assigning bug seems to be hunted down in 2.3 beta6. But there is still an issue with artillery assigned to commanders: The retreat-at-damage option in the commander menu still doesn't affect them. Of course, one can set this option fort every arty unit individually, but thus they don't return to their commander after repair. If there is something that can be done about that, it would be a REAL improvement. I'm no programmer, and i know just about nothing about how the WZ code actually works. But would it be possible to add the return-after-repair behavior to sensors? Like, arty units retreating for repair return to a sensor unit they are assigned to?

[sautedman]

Ooo Ooo, I have one! It looks like there is a bug relating to how many commanders you can have at once. I know this because I once ordered around 8 of them, and while they all got created, I wasn't able to make any more until they died. (Has it been fixed since 2.2.3?)

Before anyone asks what I was doing with so many commanders, I was playing with tactics to make it so that in the event of an untimely demise, I could still have a command structure.

[Zarel]

Are you sure that's a bug? I think there's a hard limit of 8 commanders.

[Terminator]

I guess sautedman is right in something. I tried to build max CMDs, and reached only 5 commanders than CMD design just disappears in factories.
However i managed to build more CMDs if to build many CMDs at once and assign factory delivery point to first built CMD.
In total I've got 7 CMDs, but not 8. Perhaps those CMD upgrades influence somehow on total CMD amount ?

Well as I said before commanders thing should be re-think and re-developed in the right way, so they could be more useful.

[Zarel]

Yeah, I should enforce the commander limit better. Meh, I'll get to it eventually.

[Terminator]

Phase 1. Command Relay Center: (CRC)

to get to CMD turret you had to research crc but:
problem 1) to get to turret in res. tree in current version (2.3 beta4) you need just research CRC but not to build it !

obvious question: What for CRC needs us ? Only to res turret ? It doesn't make any sense as a building.

In 1.10 i've tested > you need to research CRC > build CRC: only than turret is available for researching .

The change was intentional - it's never explained that buildings can be research prerequisites, so it's a bit confusing. I will be introducing a different use for the Command Relay Center soon - namely, to raise the unit control limit.

to raise the unit control limit. - I suppose are you talking about that thing >

My idea for the command relay post was to make them control how many units you could build:

Starting unit limit: 5
Command Center: 30
CC + Command Relay Post: 180

Seems simple enough.

What about to use CRC as a production controller? I mean like farms in warcraft, or pilots in Starcraft, like Generators in Tiberium Wars (its controls buildings limit = that is almost the same, main reason is to cut off production).

proceeds from the scheme, Destroying only CRC would cut productions completly if It would take care of 145 units.
I propose as I said to make CRC like farms in Warcraft.
For exemple 1 CRC = you can extend build limit by 10 units.
That means that players should take care of CRCs. And ofcource there will be more than one CRC.

It would be good I think. For ex. if you what make an enemy stop building units(espesially on high oil maps, where production - unspoppable process ) just blow up few CRC using VTOLs
Also it would be good for little maps like rush. I mean you can't have a huge army around 120 units and have a little base, building CRCs for units controll would force players to extend the Base.
Few units = little base;
Huge army = big base.
I think Command Center should take care of 25 units + 5 (without anything) = 30
180 - 30 = 150;
150/10 = 15;
So 15 CRC I cant say would take noticeable piece of a Map.

[Zarel]

Bit too much. Maybe 5 CRCs at +30 units each.

[Terminator]

Bit too much. Maybe 5 CRCs at +30 units each.

Why ? Look 5 CRCs I can build without any difficulties on 2c-UrbanDual (Its the smallest map I my opinion )
So 180 units - on one tiny map ?
Well anyway its just numbers, when this feature will be ready than will talk.

Btw. I've just compared CMD turret prices and I got a little shock. Why price has raised in 5 times and nothing have added to stats?
In 1.10 CMD = 100 power.
In current wz CMD = 500 power.
But HP, still the same ? Only accuracy - that dont effect in any way was raised up to 99%, but with 4 DMG - it make no sense.
Ok I understand may be if the price so high cause CMD as a units adds some bonuses, but it takes a time and for now not every CMD lives as long =)

Recently I had a MP game with 7 players - we played 4x4. And I have build an half-track python CMD ,btw some ppls were laughing from me cause CMD - waste of power in MP games with Humans, anyway - that my CMD was killed by only 3-4 f*****g lancers vtols. And 500 power had done.
I know you can tell that "Lancers is anti-tanks so its suppose to be like that....bla-bla-bla", So what is my point:
What a hell is the Commander if he dies so fast ?

So, Can I recommend to increase amount of HP or armor of CMD ?
Because in my Vision of warzone CMD is the Unit that looks like an heroes in warcraft3 - they can't just die in 1x3 fight so easy.

[Zarel]

Btw. I've just compared CMD turret prices and I got a little shock. Why price has raised in 5 times and nothing have added to stats?
In 1.10 CMD = 100 power.
In current wz CMD = 500 power.
But HP, still the same ? Only accuracy - that dont effect in any way was raised up to 99%, but with 4 DMG - it make no sense.
Ok I understand may be if the price so high cause CMD as a units adds some bonuses, but it takes a time and for now not every CMD lives as long =)

Whoa, I didn't know the price was raised that much. Must've been Troman. How's about 250 power?

Recently I had a MP game with 7 players - we played 4x4. And I have build an half-track python CMD ,btw some ppls were laughing from me cause CMD - waste of power in MP games with Humans, anyway - that my CMD was killed by only 3-4 f*****g lancers vtols. And 500 power had done.
I know you can tell that "Lancers is anti-tanks so its suppose to be like that....bla-bla-bla", So what is my point:
What a hell is the Commander if he dies so fast ?

So, Can I recommend to increase amount of HP or armor of CMD ?

Yes, the command turret upgrades give you more HP.

So, Can I recommend to increase amount of HP or armor of CMD ?
Because in my Vision of warzone CMD is the Unit that looks like an heroes in warcraft3 - they can't just die in 1x3 fight so easy.

Commanders aren't heroes - they don't have a weapon designed for one-on-one combat.

I could change that and give them a weapon comparable to MG, but then I'd have to jack the price up a lot.

[Terminator]

Well I didn't say that in 1.10 HP CMDs is perfect . I want you to increase HP or armour of CMD more.
I can accept the current price, if to make CMD stronger.

Yes, the command turret upgrades give you more HP.
....
Commanders aren't heroes - they don't have a weapon designed for one-on-one combat.

I could change that and give them a weapon comparable to MG, but then I'd have to jack the price up a lot.

When I can get CMD upgrade 4, than enemy would have such weapons that far worse than Lancers...and those 600 additional HP doesn't help much I think.

I dont ask to make them - uber-super-bad-ass motherfuckers that kills everything that moves So It dont need to add a fire weapon for them(but may be some EMP....may be in future)
I just want them to stand at least after One good attack, for exemple these 3-4 lancers in early MP game.

For exmple: Start value lets take current Command turret MkIII
1st) 1400
2) 1600
3)1900
4)2200 - It's late game..why not ? =)

[sautedman]

Are you sure that's a bug? I think there's a hard limit of 8 commanders.

why should there be a limit to commanders?

I also remembered something else. AA units that are attached to a commander will not fire at VTOLs (as far as I can tell, someone correct me?).

[Tenoh]

O_O emp would make commanders useful again.I am all for that,screw the price!