Commander things

[Zarel]

Keep in mind that the highest-HP weapon turret is the Gauss Cannon, at 700 HP. And a Dragon is 350 HP. Compared to that, and also considering that commanders are the kind of units you retreat when they get low HP, the difference between 1000 HP and 1600 HP is a lot. The better command turrets also have higher range, and since you'll have maybe two or three command turrets at most, the price really doesn't matter that much.

[bigfoot77210]

I understand,
But consider the price and body points of the gauss canon, the most powerful weapon: HP 700; Cost 400
Based on this reference, the price of the command turret MK4 should be arround 900.

If we take the Heavy Canon as reference it should be arround 800.

Therefore, it seems that, based on these criteria, the actual price of the Command Turret is at least twice too high.

[XboxJosh]

Well, they're also "special" turrets, not weapons. They gain experience rapidly, not just for themselves, but for their assigned tanks as well. They also are probably going to be protected more...

[Zarel]

I understand,
But consider the price and body points of the gauss canon, the most powerful weapon: HP 700; Cost 400
Based on this reference, the price of the command turret MK4 should be arround 900.

If we take the Heavy Canon as reference it should be arround 800.

Therefore, it seems that, based on these criteria, the actual price of the Command Turret is at least twice too high.

No, because survivability increases far more than linearly with cost.

A single commander with 1600 HP can be worth more than two commanders with 1000 HP.

For instance, say the commander is set to Retreat at Low Damage. Say it's facing two Scourge tanks.

Two commanders: First takes 1200 damage and dies. Second continues, takes 1200 damage, and dies. Or the second retreats, but you still lose half your investment.

Single commander: Takes 1200 damage, retreats, gets repaired to full health. You lose nothing. The single commander has a dramatic increase in survivability.

With regular units, this means "twice as much HP" costs more than twice as much, but not 7x as much. So why does the commander cost 7x as much? It's because survivability is the most important trait for commanders. The point of a commander is to have a lot of experience. You cannot have a lot of experience if you die. Unlike regular units, commanders must survive.

This is why prices increase more than linearly with health.

[bigfoot77210]

I think that you neglect other things when speaking about «survivability»:
1- in your example, if a unit (or group of unit) is able to destroy two commanders MK1 it still can destroy 1 MK4. However, with two commanders, you can still find a strategy to save one on the two (cover one with the other, make them retreat in two different directions…). Of course you can lost one of them, but what is 250$ against 1750$ if you lost an MK4? Yes you lost XP but less than if your only one commander MK4 is lost.
2- Several commanders controls more units than a single one, even if it is a MK4 turret (since it does not change anything about this). What about «survivability»? The money you spare making Commander MK1 instead of MK4 can be spend in an army.
3- A smart VTOL strike can blew up both Commander MK1 or MK4, especially if it is not well protected, for example when it attacks your base.
4- You neglect the micro-management allowed by Commanders, which makes them much more useful than groups, even with low XP.
5- You also neglect the disadvantages of using only One Commander:
-How to make a big army retreat? Hit the commander to yellow or red, but wait before killing it so that the army automatically retreat.
-Fires concentrate on this single unit.
-Loosing the commander makes units difficult to control, since it is not as easy to select them all. With several commanders less than one half of your army (depending on how many commanders you have) is out of control, the other part still have the commanders experience benefit.
6- Finally, if you do research Command Turret MK2 or later, you cannot go back. However, the interest of this research is very doubtful.

For these reasons, I think that spending more than 400$ in a command turret is useless, unless you have money to waste. Players should prefer spending money in several commanders, to enhance strategic possibilities, and of course in their armies.

[Zarel]

Your other reasons aren't valid, but #6 is a good point. I'll decrease the prices, but not below $400. They'll be 250 - 500 - 750 - 1000.

[bigfoot77210]

Ok, I think that it is a good trade off. In the end, performing or not the improvement of the command turret is the choice of the player.

[Per]

I guess it depends on what you use commanders for. The only reason I sometimes build them is to send Command Turret Mantis Tracks in the front line as cheap damage soakers. Nothing even comes close at that price point That (cheesy) tactic is all ruined when someone gives me the upgrade.

[Zarel]

Yeah, that's why their base price was raised from 100 to 250 in the first place: they're not really meant to be cheap damage soakers. And also because the original price progression of 100 -> 1000 -> 1500 -> 2000 was kind of ridiculous.

Maybe I should change the progression to 500 -> 750 -> 1000 -> 1250. But that might make them prohibitively expensive in the early-game.

[Terminator]

I dont know is somebody proposed something like this:

I may call it "CMD extra feature" - when more than one CMD close to each other(in sensor range) they could double bonuses of each others & assigned units too. MAy be if not double so add more bonuses.

[HCN-Trooper]

As for the CRC-building, perhaps it can become like a commander too, to which you can assign units to, so they start patroling your base, and automaticly engage enemies when the base is under attack, and they'll go to the beacon your ally places if he needs help, and you're too busy managing your own troops...

[Per]

While we're discussing commanders, can we just remove the cap on how many units can be attached to a commander? It stalls your factories, adds to micromanagement by needing more commanders and more groups, and generally feels arbitrary.

[macuser]

I second that per.

[Terminator]

While we're discussing commanders, can we just remove the cap on how many units can be attached to a commander? It stalls your factories, adds to micromanagement by needing more commanders and more groups, and generally feels arbitrary.

+1

[XboxJosh]

While we're discussing commanders, can we just remove the cap on how many units can be attached to a commander? It stalls your factories, adds to micromanagement by needing more commanders and more groups, and generally feels arbitrary.

Agreed.