Mini-pods that can attack VTOLs?

[Zarel]

Per said "probably not" when I asked him a few months ago, but I figure another versatile weapon can't hurt.

The mini-pod is a reasonably fast weapon (I can up its velocity if necessary). As an AT weapon, it gets the same damage multiplier as dedicated AA (although its DPS is lower).

(This is in addition to other balancing I'll be doing to AA.)

[fisk0]

yes, that sounds good to me. would this mean that the mini-pod towers would be able to attack VTOL's too?
that's probably a good way for slow players to at least have a chance to survive for a while if they are late with researching VTOL's.

[XboxJosh]

Sounds good. Mini-pods are rockets, too...

[...] mini-pod towers would be able to attack VTOL's too?

P.S. Maybe we should also make a mini-pod cyborg, just a thought...

[Zarel]

New idea: all towers can attack VTOLs.

[Deus Siddis]

New idea: all towers can attack VTOLs.

I think you are on the right track; you are killing two birds with one stone by making the weaker and less used weapon systems double as AA.

[Avestron]

This does have definite merits and would increase the use of rocket pod technology (and increase the legitimacy of AIs favouring rocket pod tech).

As for all towers being AA capable, again this has merits.

Perhaps a new sensor - AA CB sensor - could assign artillary units to fire upon VTOLs at reduced accuracy? I am thinking that it would be deathly frightening to fly a VTOL into a darkening horizon of rapidly approaching mortar hail.

This would also be convenient considering that there has been discussion of rolling two existing sensors into one.

[fisk0]

This does have definite merits and would increase the use of rocket pod technology (and increase the legitimacy of AIs favouring rocket pod tech).

As for all towers being AA capable, again this has merits.

Perhaps a new sensor - AA CB sensor - could assign artillary units to fire upon VTOLs at reduced accuracy? I am thinking that it would be deathly frightening to fly a VTOL into a darkening horizon of rapidly approaching mortar hail.

This would also be convenient considering that there has been discussion of rolling two existing sensors into one.

I don't think having your artillery targeting VTOL's is a very good idea. their projectiles are too slow moving to be effective, but of course, it would be interesting to give your mortars and artillery a very small chance to hit VTOL's, even though they shouldn't target them, like in Total Annihilation, where you could - if you were extremely lucky have your big bertha accidentally shoot down an enemy plane because if flew just in the line of fire. Such situations were funny, but not useful as a tactic. Unless you targeted enemy carriers and landing pads, where you had a much bigger chance of actually hitting a plane that was about to land or take off.

[Haku]

New idea: all towers can attack VTOLs.

That would be a very good idea and to balance it just rework the accuracy vs vtol's for things like lancer hardpoints, mini rocket artillary, light/medium/heavy/etc cannons, and others. Irl any of those weapons could open fire on aircraft as long as the turret could raise high enough but hitting the target is another issue. For example the heavy cannon hardpoint it could have a minimum range vs air units like the Seige Tank in Starcraft cannot fire on ground units that are inside a 5~10 ft ish diameter near the tank. Could also increase its range vs air units since it would be firing upward and the round would thus travel farther. But the weapons would also need a Primary and Secondary targeting setup so your base defences don't all start to open fire on aircraft while being rushed by tanks. So with an increase of range and a drop in accuracy it would help balance them. Reason for the accuracy penalty is to encourage people to focus on dedicated AA weapon tech. Also due to the fact that the weapons were designed to take out tanks, hardpoints, etc are now being used against a much faster and harder to hit target.

This does have definite merits and would increase the use of rocket pod technology (and increase the legitimacy of AIs favouring rocket pod tech).

As for all towers being AA capable, again this has merits.

Perhaps a new sensor - AA CB sensor - could assign artillary units to fire upon VTOLs at reduced accuracy? I am thinking that it would be deathly frightening to fly a VTOL into a darkening horizon of rapidly approaching mortar hail.

Funny you mention the artillary ive had several hailstorms of Groundshaker/Hellstorm fire take down enemy VTOL's who are unfortunate enough to get caught in their line of fire while engaging ground targets and its happened with ripple/arch-angel fire too .

Someone mentioned combining the VTOL CB w/Strike towers and as long as you can open a window similar to a commander for the CB+Strike tower it would work. Problems would come up like when your units assigned to it w/o the panel to select which units they should target, would start hounding lone artillary the enemy setup w/dozens of AA to lure your units into a deathtrap. Just a side note its fun w/the AI to keep a oil resource unclaimed w/a strike tower nearby to lure the AI trucks in for target practice Would be sick if we could produce an AC-130H Pave Spectre (Spooky) gunship

P.S. Maybe we should also make a mini-pod cyborg, just a thought...

A new cyborg for anti tank and air armed with something like a rebuilt and updated Fliegerfaust B http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fliegerfaust. Through upgrades on the Lancer/Avenger/Mini-Rocket line of missle tech it could also attain the lock on ability via Search-and-Destroy.

[Zarel]

Perhaps a new sensor - AA CB sensor - could assign artillary units to fire upon VTOLs at reduced accuracy? I am thinking that it would be deathly frightening to fly a VTOL into a darkening horizon of rapidly approaching mortar hail.

No. For one thing, different accuracy at different targets is impossible to implement with the current system (it's easy enough just to reduce damage, anyway). For another, arty doesn't need any more advantages, it's overpowered enough. <_<

I don't think having your artillery targeting VTOL's is a very good idea. their projectiles are too slow moving to be effective, but of course, it would be interesting to give your mortars and artillery a very small chance to hit VTOL's, even though they shouldn't target them, like in Total Annihilation, where you could - if you were extremely lucky have your big bertha accidentally shoot down an enemy plane because if flew just in the line of fire. Such situations were funny, but not useful as a tactic. Unless you targeted enemy carriers and landing pads, where you had a much bigger chance of actually hitting a plane that was about to land or take off.

Even worse. I've spoken at length for why "coincidence" as a basis for why a projectile hits something it normally can't hit is a bad idea. <_< Just... imagine what it would be like if you lost a game because of a &#^$ing coincidence.

That would be a very good idea and to balance it just rework the accuracy vs vtol's for things like lancer hardpoints, mini rocket artillary, light/medium/heavy/etc cannons, and others. Irl any of those weapons could open fire on aircraft as long as the turret could raise high enough but hitting the target is another issue. For example the heavy cannon hardpoint it could have a minimum range vs air units like the Seige Tank in Starcraft cannot fire on ground units that are inside a 5~10 ft ish diameter near the tank. Could also increase its range vs air units since it would be firing upward and the round would thus travel farther. But the weapons would also need a Primary and Secondary targeting setup so your base defences don't all start to open fire on aircraft while being rushed by tanks. So with an increase of range and a drop in accuracy it would help balance them. Reason for the accuracy penalty is to encourage people to focus on dedicated AA weapon tech. Also due to the fact that the weapons were designed to take out tanks, hardpoints, etc are now being used against a much faster and harder to hit target.

Erm, Warzone weapons also have a minimum radius within which some weapons can't attack. It's clearest in TK, I think, where it's like 1 tile.

Someone mentioned combining the VTOL CB w/Strike towers and as long as you can open a window similar to a commander for the CB+Strike tower it would work.

We've considered manual targeting of structures, but it's currently too much work.

Would be sick if we could produce an AC-130H Pave Spectre (Spooky) gunship

Our air-ground balance system does not allow for gunships; sorry. I'd otherwise like them, too. :/

A new cyborg for anti tank and air armed with something like a rebuilt and updated Fliegerfaust B http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fliegerfaust. Through upgrades on the Lancer/Avenger/Mini-Rocket line of missle tech it could also attain the lock on ability via Search-and-Destroy.

Grr. Homing (aka search-and-destroy) is not an upgrade, it's a weapon property that only missiles and lasers have.

Mini-pod cyborgs are an interesting idea, but not gonna happen. You don't need them; lancer cyborgs can already hit air.

[Haku]

I don't think having your artillery targeting VTOL's is a very good idea. their projectiles are too slow moving to be effective, but of course, it would be interesting to give your mortars and artillery a very small chance to hit VTOL's, even though they shouldn't target them, like in Total Annihilation, where you could - if you were extremely lucky have your big bertha accidentally shoot down an enemy plane because if flew just in the line of fire. Such situations were funny, but not useful as a tactic. Unless you targeted enemy carriers and landing pads, where you had a much bigger chance of actually hitting a plane that was about to land or take off.

Agreed it would also get a bit hairy if a person's base w/30 to 60 some hellstorms that could target aircraft decide to open up on some enemy VTOL's buzzing around their structures O_O

[Avestron]

I think Zarel's point on Artillary being overpowered is the most valid reason not to impliment AA artillary barrages (though the Mini Rocket Artillary/ Angel missile having a degree of AA capability wouldn't itself be overpowered imho).

LOL Fisk also has a point.

Eh - anyway.

A little off-topic but would it be possible for certain aircraft weapons (specifically low recoil-low-bulk weapons like machinegun and flashlight) attack enemies within range of the VTOL even if no target is assigned? I have difficulty justifying machine guns on VTOLs because they take so many passes. Allowing an arch would permit a circling round a target like a vulture to get off more rounds in less time before going back for reload and repair - and the ability to sweep a map for hiding units would be very welcome.

[Per]

How about giving all direct fire weapons the ability to shoot at VTOLs at significantly reduced accuracy? Then give AA type weapons a significant accuracy bonus.

[Deus Siddis]

How about giving all direct fire weapons the ability to shoot at VTOLs at significantly reduced accuracy? Then give AA type weapons a significant accuracy bonus.

Seconded

[BulletMagnet]

How about giving all direct fire weapons the ability to shoot at VTOLs at significantly reduced accuracy? Then give AA type weapons a significant accuracy bonus.

no.

that said; pillars of fire would look really awesome.

[dragoncrusher]

New idea: all towers can attack VTOLs.

does this mean a heavy cannon can shoot down a VERY FAST VTOL O.O

or a flamer can burn the vtol too O.O lol