openal

[Vyborg007]

I can't build warzone from SVN because got

gcc  -g -O2  -g0 -O2 -DNDEBUG -I/usr/include/SDL -D_GNU_SOURCE=1 -D_REENTRANT -I/usr/include/SDL -DYY_STATIC -DDEFAULT_DATADIR=\"/usr/local/share/warzone2100\"  -o warzone2100  scriptvals_parser.o
[skip many *.o files]
structure.o target.o warzoneconfig.o ../lib/framework/libframework.a ../lib/sound/libsound.a ../lib/netplay/libnetplay.a ../lib/script/libscript.a ../lib/ivis_common/libivis_common.a ../lib/ivis_opengl/libivis_opengl.a ../lib/gamelib/libgamelib.a ../lib/sequence/libsequence.a ../lib/widget/libwidget.a  -lphysfs -lpng -ljpeg -lz -lm  -lSDL -lpthread -L/usr/lib -lSDL_net -lGL -lGLU -lopenal -lvorbisfile -lvorbis -logg -lmad
../lib/sound/libsound.a(openal_track.o): In function `sound_SetPlayerPos':
openal_track.c:(.text+0x448): undefined reference to `alListener3i'
../lib/sound/libsound.a(openal_track.o): In function `sound_InitLibrary':
openal_track.c:(.text+0xd2f): undefined reference to `alListener3i'
collect2: ld returned 1 exit status

I have openal 0.0.8 at my Linux box and "alListener3i" presence only in win32 part of openal sources.

How can I build warzone without sound support (I'm never use it at all)?
I think it would be nice future in "./configure" stage.

[Giel]

Firstly, I believe you can't compile WZ without sound support (the code is too tightly integrated I'm afraight).

Secondly the problem here isn't Windows vs. GNU/Linux. The openal 0.0.8 libs are written to comply with the OpenAL spec 1.0, the above function (alListener3i) is only declared by the 1.1 spec, which isn't yet implemented on GNU/Linux. So as soon as I have time (which will be in several hours from now) I'll make sure to fix this.

[DevUrandom]

Well, what I wonder is why this compiles fine here. I use 0.0.8, too...

[Vyborg007]

[skip]
So as soon as I have time (which will be in several hours from now) I'll make sure to fix this.

Thanks alot! All works.

[Giel]

Well, what I wonder is why this compiles fine here. I use 0.0.8, too...

Must be because OpenAL is implemented excellent on Windows. The GNU/Linux implementation however, erm, well isn't as good.

[kage]

Must be because OpenAL is implemented excellent on Windows. The GNU/Linux implementation however, erm, well isn't as good.

that's an irony to have such support on that platform when its owner, microsoft, is the last to accept open standards unless they are the ones to propose them, and even then, not necessarily (as an example, signifigant portions of the DOM event subsection were proposed by microsoft, accepted and standardized, and subsequently found in several www browsers, not including microsoft's internet explorer).

[Giel]

that's an irony to have such support on that platform when its owner, microsoft, is the last to accept open standards unless they are the ones to propose them, and even then, not necessarily (as an example, signifigant portions of the DOM event subsection were proposed by microsoft, accepted and standardized, and subsequently found in several www browsers, not including microsoft's internet explorer).

Well, must be because Creative and nVidea are both contributing rather heavily (Creative the most) to OpenAL, because it helps in selling their products. And obviously it (still) isn't very interesting to invest time/money in GNU/Linux based games (or in this case the libraries they depend on).

[kage]

Well, must be because Creative and nVidea are both contributing rather heavily (Creative the most) to OpenAL, because it helps in selling their products. And obviously it (still) isn't very interesting to invest time/money in GNU/Linux based games (or in this case the libraries they depend on).

all depends on who you ask: i've invested a lot of time in linux games, as well as gnu ones, and i can honestly say that it has been quite interesting. at any rate, opengl is something that nvidia makes a lot of money off of with their highend workstation cards (whose users don't care about directx, since directx has only ever been useful for gaming and low end design applications, but is incapable of the high-quality and flexible output found in full-spec opengl renders). openal is expected to increase in popularity ever more quickly since one can write decent positional audio code in openal in much less effort than they can write bare-minimum-quality 3d positional audio code in directsound, and nvidia does make some sound cards, thus, it's in their better interest to add extensions to openal to support their extra hardware features.

granted, most vendors still aren't releasing linux or mac versions of their games, and the whole intel mac thing hasn't helped, since now most vendors will assume that all the mac'sters will use their mac hardware to run windows. some vendors see great value in making linux versions of games (like epic), since, as an example, when ut2007 comes out, there'll be nothing even close to its quality in the fps genre on linux, and thus will dominate that entire market. as the "we only run windows if we really have to" trend is catching on, we'll see if game developers follow, but it'll be tough, since, even though opengl is much easier to learn and write, most devs have had to learn directx.

[DevUrandom]

With no sound-hardware support in Vista/DX10, OpenAL has a good chance of growing even more in popularity: http://openal.org/openal_vista.html

[kage]

you mean directsound in dx10 is completely software? creative will be shocked.

is this whole thing a temporary problem, or have they abandoned it altogether? if it's total abandonment, it's a really good move for microsoft on the part of opengl, since openal was designed to be "the just-as-easy-and-flexible audio equivalent to opengl".

[DevUrandom]

Creative IS shocked. That's why they moved all over to OpenAL.
And yes, afaik DirectSound is completely software in DX10 and that's not just temporary. MS removed the complete hardware support/interface or whatever was present before.

Links:
http://www.heise.de/newsticker/meldung/81212 (german)
http://www.netzwelt.de/news/74927_2-spi ... -teil.html (german)
http://activewin.com/reviews/software/o ... tx10.shtml (english)
http://digg.com/software/10_reasons_not_to_get_Vista (english)
http://openal.com/openal_vista.html (english)

[Giel]

Creative IS shocked. That's why they moved all over to OpenAL.
And yes, afaik DirectSound is completely software in DX10 and that's not just temporary. MS removed the complete hardware support/interface or whatever was present before.

Ah, so it seems M$ finally wants to give someone else's standard (i.e. OpenAL in this case) a chance. Either that or they don't understand that this move will make them lose market share in the area of gamelibs (as pointed out by kage it might even result in a move from DX to OpenGL). Either way in the end it will be a victory for the Open Source/Free (as in speech, not necessarily as in beer) software community. Woohoo!  ;D

[kage]

Ah, so it seems M$ finally wants to give someone else's standard (i.e. OpenAL in this case) a chance. Either that or they don't understand that this move will make them lose market share in the area of gamelibs (as pointed out by kage it might even result in a move from DX to OpenGL). Either way in the end it will be a victory for the Open Source/Free (as in speech, not necessarily as in beer) software community. Woohoo!  ;D

actually, after talking with a friend who's looked into under-the-hood type vista stuff, it would seem that the lack of hardware accelerated directsound is entirely unrelated to the gaming industry -- because of vista's total commitment to drm, and protecting "premium content" at every possible level from windows users (which ms and hollywood consider to be, in whole and without exception, software pirates), hardware accelerated sound, in any form, cannot exist within anything so heavily integrated into vista as is directx without completely redesigning their hardware security model -- this is because audio in vista is sent in discrete channels to the sound card, with multiple levels of encryption and decryption on both ends, and will not work in any way that will accomodate any method of communication that allows anything beyond eax effects (which still aren't 3d themselves) to act on the audio -- any sound card in vista that does not support the encryption methods and have secret industry keys won't be fed any audio from "premium content" such as bluray movies, and anything else with drm.

as noted here it looks like vista is being advertised and designed for hollywood producers, and not the consumers who'll be using it. it looks like the gaming industry has taken a back seat this time through, and ms has stepped to bat and made a very tight and exclusive deal with dmca-loving giants which ms is counting on as their primary source of profit (if the average joe user sees that the only OS he can play bluray or hd-dvd movies on is vista, he's probably going to buy vista, and ignore all else -- having worked as a software salesman, i can tell you this is pretty much how it works, since ms is very good at making consumers think they "need" every latest piece of software they produce).

[Kamaze]

Ah, so it seems M$ finally wants to give someone else's standard (i.e. OpenAL in this case) a chance...

No, they just try to avoid to capture soundstreams. (DRM aso...)

[Giel]

No, they just try to avoid to capture soundstreams. (DRM aso...)

Well lets call it the price they're prepared to pay for it then. Lets hope it'll mean the end of them.