Done?

Discuss the future of Warzone 2100 with us.
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Buginator
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Done?

Post by Buginator » 19 Sep 2008, 06:41

Oh, and no, this isn't vista. :P
Igun.jpg
wzIntro.jpg
Thanks Jason! (jaywalker_eidos) :D

elio
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Re: Done?

Post by elio » 19 Sep 2008, 06:46

yeah, great work!
is it also working on macs?

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Re: Done?

Post by Buginator » 19 Sep 2008, 06:50

elio wrote:yeah, great work!
is it also working on macs?
I have no idea, I haven't been able to get anyone to compile it with the patch, and link to libtheora as well. :stressed:



sidenote, the FMVs are 192x168 (top) & 320x240 (bottom). It looks pretty crappy on screens that are bigger than those resolutions.

It would be great, if someone can redo them in a higher res.

Or how about make a totally new opening intro FMV ?

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Zarel
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Re: Done?

Post by Zarel » 19 Sep 2008, 10:31

Honestly, I don't think any of us can match the quality of the original FMVs. Our budget is significantly less that Pumpkin Studios'.

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Re: Done?

Post by DevUrandom » 19 Sep 2008, 10:45

Zarel wrote:Honestly, I don't think any of us can match the quality of the original FMVs. Our budget is significantly less that Pumpkin Studios'.
I haven't read nor posted anything since weeks, but this just cried for a post. :P

Our budget is zero and still we got something done... The budget of a lot of other projects is null as well, and still they created great games or programs.
Why is that, you may ask.
It is the power of the community, the power of open source.
So get those feet under the desk and start getting something done! :P

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Re: Done?

Post by elio » 19 Sep 2008, 11:25

we could get in touch with people in blender forums or other 3d program, perhaps someone or even a number of people are interested in this project.

imo an community opensource project progress (much) slower than a commercial, but it's result is cleaner and in the end better. (look at blender: it's awesome..)

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Re: Done?

Post by Tiberian » 19 Sep 2008, 14:52

the game loses so much of it's effect without the FMVs, thank god we have them

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Re: Done?

Post by Mertens » 19 Sep 2008, 19:36

looking gooood, chucked in my old CD rom to have a look and i must say i cant wait for the resurection to have them aswell.

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Re: Done?

Post by Giel » 20 Sep 2008, 01:28

Zarel wrote:Honestly, I don't think any of us can match the quality of the original FMVs. Our budget is significantly less that Pumpkin Studios'.
The fact that you measure with "budgets" makes me think that you don't understand that for open source projects money has very little value (yes the inflation hit hard :P). Unlike for most corporations, for open source projects money is not the limiting factor. The scarce resource in open source projects is time.

Thus because these two "business models" (for lack of a better name) are based around a completely different resource and thus can only be compared very superficially. Hence why I think "Honestly, I don't think any of us can match the quality of the original FMVs." is plainly wrong and at the most can serve as a motivation for some people to prove you wrong. If that last thing was your intention I hope it works ;).
elio wrote:imo an community opensource project progress (much) slower than a commercial, but it's result is cleaner and in the end better. (look at blender: it's awesome..)
Hmm, I think progress speed depends entirely on the motivation and skill of the particular individuals that work on it.

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Re: Done?

Post by Zarel » 20 Sep 2008, 08:34

DevUrandom wrote: Our budget is zero and still we got something done... The budget of a lot of other projects is null as well, and still they created great games or programs.
Why is that, you may ask.
It is the power of the community, the power of open source.
So get those feet under the desk and start getting something done! :P
Giel wrote:[The fact that you measure with "budgets" makes me think that you don't understand that for open source projects money has very little value (yes the inflation hit hard :P). Unlike for most corporations, for open source projects money is not the limiting factor. The scarce resource in open source projects is time.

Thus because these two "business models" (for lack of a better name) are based around a completely different resource and thus can only be compared very superficially. Hence why I think "Honestly, I don't think any of us can match the quality of the original FMVs." is plainly wrong and at the most can serve as a motivation for some people to prove you wrong. If that last thing was your intention I hope it works ;).
See, I agree with you in terms of programming. There are a lot of programmers who make a lot of good stuff for free.

But "the power of open source" just doesn't affect artists so much (Perhaps because it's a lot easier to make a lot of money because artistic talent is easier to recognize). There are significantly less good artists and graphic designers working for free. If they do, they generally work for themselves, not for projects like ours. There's a reason why open-source games generally have inferior graphics to commercial games (Warzone probably has the best graphics out of any OSS game out there I know of, and that's because it was originally proprietary).

I say this from experience. Recruiting testers for free for a project is easy. Recruiting coders, less so. Recruiting artists, effectively impossible. I mean, seriously, it would probably be easier for us to find coders who'll write a good upsampling algorithm than it would for us to find artists to remake the FMVs better than they were before.

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Re: Done?

Post by Chojun » 20 Sep 2008, 16:33

Upsampling on a lossy format?

Heh.

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Re: Done?

Post by psychopompos » 21 Sep 2008, 01:05

Zarel wrote:
DevUrandom wrote: I say this from experience. Recruiting testers for free for a project is easy. Recruiting coders, less so. Recruiting artists, effectively impossible. I mean, seriously, it would probably be easier for us to find coders who'll write a good upsampling algorithm than it would for us to find artists to remake the FMVs better than they were before.
you could try approaching some anime fansub groups to get the video upscaled.
they are about the only people i can think of, that would have the softwear & experience at their fingertips, that would do it for free.
iv seen some pretty good upscales done. from .avi anyway.
even if they are starting at higher res...

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Re: Done?

Post by dmx » 21 Sep 2008, 09:29

Buginator wrote:
elio wrote:yeah, great work!
is it also working on macs?
I have no idea, I haven't been able to get anyone to compile it with the patch, and link to libtheora as well. :stressed:



sidenote, the FMVs are 192x168 (top) & 320x240 (bottom). It looks pretty crappy on screens that are bigger than those resolutions.

It would be great, if someone can redo them in a higher res.

Or how about make a totally new opening intro FMV ?
Was that the res of the original FMVs? Because if so, your probably boned. Upscaling isn't going to add resolution, because thats sort of presuming that information thats 'lost' can be found again. Upscaling just makes it display *easier* rather than nicer.

In that context , your probably better off just upscaling it in the codec and seeing if ogg or whatever has any good output filtering that can be applied, like anti-aliasing, and noise reduction. Give it a tiny bit of blur to smooth the rought edges and it might at least be passable.

Or you could remake them, but yeah, finding good 3D artists is probably like pulling teeth. I guess you could just make videos from the game and overlay stuff into them.

It'd be nice to keep the original videos in some form however.

If only however I could figure out how to compile theora and link it in in xcode :(

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Re: Done?

Post by Zarel » 21 Sep 2008, 11:07

Buginator wrote:sidenote, the FMVs are 192x168 (top) & 320x240 (bottom). It looks pretty crappy on screens that are bigger than those resolutions.
Lies. The 320x240 FMVs were literally designed to be upscaled to 640x480. Granted, they start to look bad at higher resolutions.
dmx wrote:Or you could remake them, but yeah, finding good 3D artists is probably like pulling teeth.
You mean good free 3D artists. If anyone here has a spare $5000 or so, I can probably find a pretty good 3D artist through my connections.

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Re: Done?

Post by Buginator » 22 Sep 2008, 03:28

Chojun wrote:Upsampling on a lossy format?

Heh.
I was thinking more along the lines of redoing them from scratch.
Zarel wrote:
Buginator wrote:sidenote, the FMVs are 192x168 (top) & 320x240 (bottom). It looks pretty crappy on screens that are bigger than those resolutions.
Lies. The 320x240 FMVs were literally designed to be upscaled to 640x480. Granted, they start to look bad at higher resolutions.
What is that supposed to mean? They were designed for 320x240. While 640x480 isn't that bad, the higher up you go, the uglier it gets.
dmx wrote: Was that the res of the original FMVs? Because if so, your probably boned. Upscaling isn't going to add resolution, because thats sort of presuming that information thats 'lost' can be found again. Upscaling just makes it display *easier* rather than nicer.

In that context , your probably better off just upscaling it in the codec and seeing if ogg or whatever has any good output filtering that can be applied, like anti-aliasing, and noise reduction. Give it a tiny bit of blur to smooth the rought edges and it might at least be passable.

Or you could remake them, but yeah, finding good 3D artists is probably like pulling teeth. I guess you could just make videos from the game and overlay stuff into them.

It'd be nice to keep the original videos in some form however.

If only however I could figure out how to compile theora and link it in in xcode :(
Yeah, that is the original pumpkin resolution that they used.
We could do double scanline tricks (where you skip every scanline), but that has its limits to how useful that can be.
I was also playing around with some filters, and in the end, it really didn't make much difference. The source material is just too low res.

Though, I rather have these FMVs, than no FMVs, they really make the SP game much, MUCH better.

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