That little bucket of ideas.....

Discuss the future of Warzone 2100 with us.
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commondragon
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That little bucket of ideas.....

Post by commondragon » 16 Dec 2006, 01:43

Yeah, I jsut joined and now I'm posting a ton of ideas upon you all. But hey, it's some good stuff.

1. VTOL to VTOL combat:
I've noticed that you can't order your VTOLs to attack any enemy VTOLs. I'm saying that it would be fun if you could have your VTOLs perform airbattles. I'm not saying add AA to air, just let teh machinegun, lazer, and maybe cannon and missle VTOLs attack others.

POSSIBLE CORRUPTION: Taking VTOLs in partol mode, and using then instead of AA emplacements, used as to save space for more buildings.

2. VTOL sensors:
In the book that came with the PS1 version, it talks about VTOL sensors. While this will go in tune with #3, it would be nice to have a flying partol VTOL that tells others were to attack, or at least use it as a scout. This would also encourage making extra precausions in base defense, as to try and defeat these VTOLs early. However it would be somewhat of a pain to make the systems button on the VTOLs, wouldn't it?

3. Auto-Sensor targeting:
Instead of just having to scan through every sensor you have, why not set your artillery to it, and leave it alone? This would help make artillery somewhat easier to handle, especially when your dealing with multiple attacks.
BAD POINT: This would reduce the need for sensor towers greatly. FIX: Make it so the "mobile sensor towers" have to stop in order to keep lock on. You could, as an alternate fix, make it so artillery is less accurate unless you assign the target yourself.

4. AI profiles in skirmish:
This is something that would kind of be a future thing, but why not make diffrent profiles for the AI when in skirmish? For those of use without anyone to play with over the internet, it would be a little bit more like the real thing if there was the "defensive type" and the "energy hoarder". Suggestions ffrom this player: Classic, Defensive, Agressive, building oriented, energy saver.



and that's all for my suggestions. (until next time hehehe)
WE ARE IDEA! WE ARE UR FUEL! DONT.....FORGET US! (bad song I know ^^)

Chojun
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Re: That little bucket of ideas.....

Post by Chojun » 16 Dec 2006, 02:34

I agree with you.  VTOL command/control in Warzone has always seemed.. broken to me.  It is very awkward trying to manually have VTOLs target things.  However, VTOLs excel when attached to the various VTOL towers.
The best thing to do when your philosophies don't stand up to debate is to lock the thread and claim victory.

karmazilla
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Re: That little bucket of ideas.....

Post by karmazilla » 16 Dec 2006, 02:44

commondragon wrote: Yeah, I jsut joined and now I'm posting a ton of ideas upon you all. But hey, it's some good stuff.
Welcome a'board.
commondragon wrote:1. VTOL to VTOL combat:
I've noticed that you can't order your VTOLs to attack any enemy VTOLs. I'm saying that it would be fun if you could have your VTOLs perform airbattles. I'm not saying add AA to air, just let teh machinegun, lazer, and maybe cannon and missle VTOLs attack others.

POSSIBLE CORRUPTION: Taking VTOLs in partol mode, and using then instead of AA emplacements, used as to save space for more buildings.
This idea is excellent, IMHO. I think this one could bring some 'freshness' to the game, and make for some interesting new tactics. I like it.
commondragon wrote:2. VTOL sensors:
In the book that came with the PS1 version, it talks about VTOL sensors. While this will go in tune with #3, it would be nice to have a flying partol VTOL that tells others were to attack, or at least use it as a scout. This would also encourage making extra precausions in base defense, as to try and defeat these VTOLs early. However it would be somewhat of a pain to make the systems button on the VTOLs, wouldn't it?
I don't see myself making much use of this, if it was implemented.
commondragon wrote:3. Auto-Sensor targeting:
Instead of just having to scan through every sensor you have, why not set your artillery to it, and leave it alone? This would help make artillery somewhat easier to handle, especially when your dealing with multiple attacks.
BAD POINT: This would reduce the need for sensor towers greatly. FIX: Make it so the "mobile sensor towers" have to stop in order to keep lock on. You could, as an alternate fix, make it so artillery is less accurate unless you assign the target yourself.
A simple version of this already exists using commanders. You might be scratching an itch with this one, but I don't think it's that big. Personally, I would rate this one as low priority.
commondragon wrote:4. AI profiles in skirmish:
This is something that would kind of be a future thing, but why not make diffrent profiles for the AI when in skirmish? For those of use without anyone to play with over the internet, it would be a little bit more like the real thing if there was the "defensive type" and the "energy hoarder". Suggestions ffrom this player: Classic, Defensive, Agressive, building oriented, energy saver.
This is currently done through mods. If it became easier to switch mods on/off, then this idea would automatically be implemented. Useful feature indeed.
commondragon wrote:and that's all for my suggestions. (until next time hehehe)
And that's all for my comments, looking forward to next time ;)

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Watermelon
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Re: That little bucket of ideas.....

Post by Watermelon » 16 Dec 2006, 05:21

commondragon wrote: Yeah, I jsut joined and now I'm posting a ton of ideas upon you all. But hey, it's some good stuff.

1. VTOL to VTOL combat:
I've noticed that you can't order your VTOLs to attack any enemy VTOLs. I'm saying that it would be fun if you could have your VTOLs perform airbattles. I'm not saying add AA to air, just let teh machinegun, lazer, and maybe cannon and missle VTOLs attack others.

POSSIBLE CORRUPTION: Taking VTOLs in partol mode, and using then instead of AA emplacements, used as to save space for more buildings.
I added a new 'order' for VTOL(not reviewed/in cvs yet) to circle around the target position and it will try to keep 1000 in-game units from the target position(simiar to generals air unit guard),though the VTOL can never hit/kill enemy VTOL's with 'regular' weapons:

missile/rocket:too slow
mg:1/10 damage vs VTOL...

Adding an Air-to-Air homing missile would probably fix this,and we also need a counter missile missile  :D if it's overpowered.
tasks postponed until the trunk is relatively stable again.

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lav_coyote25
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Re: That little bucket of ideas.....

Post by lav_coyote25 » 16 Dec 2006, 06:43

actually - sorry to break in and say this but... ;D  vtols can and WILL attack other vtols when your vtols are on a patrol status. and if your into fast clicking - you can order a single vtol to take out an enemy vtol - but your click finger needs to be lightning quick. 

and scourge  - when they have been fully researched  - only takes 1 to 2 sometimes 3 hits to take out a heavy body.
‎"to prepare for disaster is to invite it, to not prepare for disaster is a fools choice" -me (kim-lav_coyote25-metcalfe) - it used to be attributed to unknown - but adding the last bit , it now makes sense.

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commondragon
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Re: That little bucket of ideas.....

Post by commondragon » 16 Dec 2006, 07:09

Sorry, I;ve tested this myself on teh newest version up on the downloads, done it with machineguns, mini pods, and I think lazers. They didn't attack one anotehr, and I was doing patrol.
WE ARE IDEA! WE ARE UR FUEL! DONT.....FORGET US! (bad song I know ^^)

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lav_coyote25
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Re: That little bucket of ideas.....

Post by lav_coyote25 » 16 Dec 2006, 08:34

i have even seen the ai take on  my vtols with vtol lasers... amongst other things ( mainly lancer and scourge with a small amount of bunker busters).  mind you this was after 2 plus hours on a 8 person map against 7 ai. 
Last edited by lav_coyote25 on 16 Dec 2006, 09:39, edited 1 time in total.
‎"to prepare for disaster is to invite it, to not prepare for disaster is a fools choice" -me (kim-lav_coyote25-metcalfe) - it used to be attributed to unknown - but adding the last bit , it now makes sense.

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kage
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Re: That little bucket of ideas.....

Post by kage » 16 Dec 2006, 14:33

actually - sorry to break in and say this but... Grin  vtols can and WILL attack other vtols when your vtols are on a patrol status. and if your into fast clicking - you can order a single vtol to take out an enemy vtol - but your click finger needs to be lightning quick.
i don't know about the latest version of the code, but i used to play around with this a bit in campaign 3 by attaching them to sensors -- vtol and wide spectrum sensors did make vtols attack incoming vtols. (though the assault gun wasn't terribly effective in vtol-vtol combat -- it couldn't take out enemy vtols before they could get to your base). i even made some mods with some interceptor aircraft.
karmazilla wrote: I don't see myself making much use of this, if it was implemented.
aircraft often have been made useful for this purpose -- at least in warfare before the nasda incident, early detection was extremely vital (though gameplay doesn't make this anything of a necessity as it stands now). something that aircraft have also been used for is artillery spotting, which might be useful -- it needs a signifigantly slower aircraft, but usually gives far more accurate fire coordinates than a ground-based remote observer (represented by sensor units in wz). in modern times, using aircraft as a laser designator would have something of a benefit for certain types of homing missiles, as well as that homing howitzer tech you get in campaign 2 (although this only improves weapon accuracy in-game, and doesn't actually make the shell home in on the target (at least this was the case in 1.10).

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Re: That little bucket of ideas.....

Post by DRIES » 18 Dec 2006, 13:54

- A habor would be cool so you can create battleships and fight in the water and ships where vtols can land on to reload.
- (Re) add the mines as in the mod 1.12 i think.
- Vtols with 2 guns one like the lancer or cannon or something and the other a machinegun that automatically shoots on everything it sees, this would make vtols much cooler and it would be used more often i think.
- Hellicopters.
- Create your own cyborgs then they would be used more.
- Wheels, halftracks and tracks come to close after each other no one ever uses halftracks.
- Make researching slower (start as scavenger and then slowly evoluate).
- 2 or more different teams with each his own weapons and buildings and stuff would be awesome but i don't know this is possible to make.

ps if you need some help i know photoshop and i can work a little bit with 3D max (i'm learning it)

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Re: That little bucket of ideas.....

Post by Watermelon » 18 Dec 2006, 14:57

DRIES wrote: - A habor would be cool so you can create battleships and fight in the water and ships where vtols can land on to reload.
- (Re) add the mines as in the mod 1.12 i think.
- Vtols with 2 guns one like the lancer or cannon or something and the other a machinegun that automatically shoots on everything it sees, this would make vtols much cooler and it would be used more often i think.
- Hellicopters.
- Create your own cyborgs then they would be used more.
- Wheels, halftracks and tracks come to close after each other no one ever uses halftracks.
- Make researching slower (start as scavenger and then slowly evoluate).
- 2 or more different teams with each his own weapons and buildings and stuff would be awesome but i don't know this is possible to make.

ps if you need some help i know photoshop and i can work a little bit with 3D max (i'm learning it)
1.will navy units be useful?it seems to me there is no 'water map' and hover is some kind of 'navy' too...
2.not sure what landmine was like,never played 1.xx
3.need to finish multi-targeting(1 for 'bomb target' and 1 for 'mg turret')
4.I did some tests with VTOLH(vtol helix),they were overpowered and I didnt have a pie for their propulsion...
5.possible,just make all cyborg comps designable and remove all pre-designed templates/research items.
6.dont know how to rebalance them. hover > wheels and halftracks I think
7.research is too slow imo...
8.possible with scripts,and I need to disable the tech 'share' in mp if the game has different 'factions'.
tasks postponed until the trunk is relatively stable again.

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Re: That little bucket of ideas.....

Post by ratarf » 18 Dec 2006, 16:30

Ships would require water maps to be build of course. I think transporter ships would be cool.

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Re: That little bucket of ideas.....

Post by themousemaster » 18 Dec 2006, 18:12

I am a big fan of naval combat in RTS games  (C&C RA2 anyone?).  However, Just the way this game is designed doesn't lend itself well to naval warfare.  Maybe in the sequel ;p.



One of the reasons propultion comes down to hover + track + vtol is because the only things propulstion effects are body points and speed.  To make wheels and halftrack propultion more useful overall, you could either

A)  Have propultion also give armor threshold modifiers, or
B)  More greatly enunciate the damage bonuses of certain weapons vs certain propultions (I guarantee you if wheels got some sort of "dodge modifier" against Scourge rockets, you'd see a LOT more wheels ;p).



I wouldn't go with having "different teams" with different weapons.  Every other RTS game out there has "sides" that are "separate but equal".  One of WZ's unique points is that everyone IS equal, only differentiating in what tech paths they choose to go down.  Without that, it isn't really WZ.

ratarf
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Re: That little bucket of ideas.....

Post by ratarf » 18 Dec 2006, 20:04

The different sides could maybe be done using scripts afterwards. I don't think it should be in the standard game because, as mentioned, it changes the gameplay too much.

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Re: That little bucket of ideas.....

Post by DevUrandom » 18 Dec 2006, 22:38

themousemaster wrote: One of the reasons propultion comes down to hover + track + vtol is because the only things propulstion effects are body points and speed.  To make wheels and halftrack propultion more useful overall, you could either

A)  Have propultion also give armor threshold modifiers, or
B)  More greatly enunciate the damage bonuses of certain weapons vs certain propultions (I guarantee you if wheels got some sort of "dodge modifier" against Scourge rockets, you'd see a LOT more wheels ;p).
B is allready implemented. :) (Credits go to Watermelon.)
You can now move out of the way of an incoming projectile, so the speed of the unit directly affects it's dodging abilities.

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Re: That little bucket of ideas.....

Post by Solitaire » 19 Dec 2006, 00:26

Indeed - we can now differentiate between fast-traverse high-accuracy weapons and slow heavy-hitters now, which makes many things a lot less useless :)

And IMHO we need a AAM weapon... Avenger for VTOLs ;D We certainly could do with readjusting the damage output on VTOL light-arms and giving those decent ammo allocations...

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