A brand new AI

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qwerty800
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A brand new AI

Post by qwerty800 » 28 Apr 2008, 21:53

Don't worry troman, i wil not say I want to replace AIvolution.

I just want to integer a "save a replay of this game" function (Just like in so many game)

What the heck it would be for?
To analyse the human player strategy!
Why?
You got it! To get a Really Intelligent Artificial Intelligence instead of... that Skirmish thing!

Oh, it's only an idea but i thing it won't be hard to implement... Or will?
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marcmad
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Re: A brand new AI

Post by marcmad » 01 May 2008, 14:13

If I know how to put stratégie for the ennemy i can put a lot of them.
You don't have any ideas of how many stratégie I have.
(sorry if I hurt  you.)
The best tactit is to mixted up the great tank,the little tank, the adav and the cyborg. And whit this army, doing great stratégie.

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Re: A brand new AI

Post by Arcalane » 01 May 2008, 20:13

qwerty800 wrote: Oh, it's only an idea but i thing it won't be hard to implement...
A phrase I expect many coders (not just wz2100 ones, mind) are very tired of. ;)

It's not as simple as just making the AI watch the. You need to program how it should respond to these threats beyond a simple response like "enemy has VTOLs, so make more AA". It needs to be 'trained' (as it were) to be able to adapt to these things on the fly. To be a more challenging AI it should be able to effectively adapt, and then launch a counter-offensive or more, dependant on what it's seen of the player's units and such so far.

There's not really any AI I know of out there that can properly do that.

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Re: A brand new AI

Post by Giel » 01 May 2008, 20:43

qwerty800 wrote: Don't worry troman, i wil not say I want to replace AIvolution.

I just want to integer a "save a replay of this game" function (Just like in so many game)

What the heck it would be for?
To analyse the human player strategy!
Why?
You got it! To get a Really Intelligent Artificial Intelligence instead of... that Skirmish thing!
If what you mean is to devise an artificial intelligence that learns (or attempts to lean) from its human opponents then you're in luck. Aivolution does just that (among other techniques of course).
Arcalane wrote:
qwerty800 wrote: Oh, it's only an idea but i thing it won't be hard to implement... Or will?
A phrase I expect many coders (not just wz2100 ones, mind) are very tired of. ;)
Yup! To my experience a lot of non-programmer users are afraid to ask for some features because they think they're difficult to implement, while those are very easy to implement. At the same time a lot of these people consider some features very simple to implement, while in fact they're good for a 10 year long research job.

This AI problem (i.e. having computer systems to adapt to human behaviour) is good for a 50 year research job at least, as it's a problem that many people are trying to solve since 1960 or even before that.

That said, if you want a feature, just ask for it, no matter how difficult you think it'll be to implement. But please don't make any statements on how easy implementing it will be if you don't know anything about it.
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qwerty800
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Re: A brand new AI

Post by qwerty800 » 01 May 2008, 22:59

Wait!
I simpley mean to see how do an experimented humain player would reply to some conditions.

Ex:

Code: Select all

Vtols defense
IF "ennemyhavevtols" = True
goto AABuild

(...)
AAbuild
IF "EnnemyAlreadyDidASuccesfulAttackAttempUsignVTOLS" = True
Build AADefences
I hope I remenber my C tutorial

It would require:
A replay function;
A special humain testing level;
A replay analyse team;
Some devs

The replay analyse would decide of the AI behaviour.

I don't say you to DO il.

I'm just telling you we need a replay function and a AI Testing/ Humain Behaviour analyse level
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Re: A brand new AI

Post by marcmad » 02 May 2008, 17:12

not obligated to be complicated. :P
that good if we just had stratégie.
(look like they bring whit them an army of 250 cyborg to kill all the people or an army of tank. An ennemy attack whit 100 adav can be killing too. Or he can do the 3 at the same time. why don't put ennemy speciality look like agressive, or defensive and etc.
The best tactit is to mixted up the great tank,the little tank, the adav and the cyborg. And whit this army, doing great stratégie.

(Je suis un français du quebec. yai!!!)

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Re: A brand new AI

Post by Laserlight » 02 May 2008, 21:10

... I may as well ditch my AI i have been making for the last 2months  :(
This looks like an idea i had in the past...

"Exactly! i know, if the AI was to use the player a role model in a way or develop a random script in a way to see what works best (Like real people do) then the game would be much more "intelligent" in a way...
the Ai does not work symmetrically either so there bases look like its was sneezed on the map, then the game would be more realistic."

Allot of people seem to be trying that idea XD
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qwerty800
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Re: A brand new AI

Post by qwerty800 » 03 May 2008, 03:57

So... why don't we have a replay function?
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Re: A brand new AI

Post by Per » 03 May 2008, 16:23

Laserlight wrote: ... I may as well ditch my AI i have been making for the last 2months  :(
Why? The more the merrier...
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Re: A brand new AI

Post by Arcalane » 04 May 2008, 11:31

qwerty800 wrote:

Code: Select all

Vtols defense
IF "ennemyhavevtols" = True
goto AABuild

(...)
AAbuild
IF "EnnemyAlreadyDidASuccesfulAttackAttempUsignVTOLS" = True
Build AADefences
That's... what AIvolution is supposed to do already. In the documentation if you tell it " has VTOLs" it will build more AA. I don't know if it also builds defenses automatically, although I think it does. Not 100% sure though.

I know the default AI does, at least.

Mostly what it needs now is actual VTOL and cyborg handling.

AIvolution as I see it is pretty much what you're asking for, except not quite as complex. ???

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Re: A brand new AI

Post by marcmad » 05 May 2008, 14:11

that do this but that not a lot. I talk about different stratégie.
The best tactit is to mixted up the great tank,the little tank, the adav and the cyborg. And whit this army, doing great stratégie.

(Je suis un français du quebec. yai!!!)

Arcalane
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Re: A brand new AI

Post by Arcalane » 05 May 2008, 18:55

So rather than attempting to build something new from scratch, why not attempt to incorporate some of these strategies into something that exists already by co-operating with Troman?

AIvo still needs cyborg and VTOL handling behaviours added but once those are done maybe something more can be done to expand it's archive of strategies. Right now all it seems to do is blob with tanks, which isn't a particularly complex strategy, although it tends to work rather well.

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Re: A brand new AI

Post by psychopompos » 06 May 2008, 18:53

is there actually an ai out there that lives up to this?
outside of military labs & other expensive things i mean.
Arcalane wrote:Right now all it seems to do is blob with tanks, which isn't a particularly complex strategy, although it tends to work rather well.
sounds like fun.
but how about 2 hours in, will it have more then 6 units?
one of the biggest issue i have found with the ai in wz is leaving its base deserted, 'cept for a few borgs & the odd hover.

the other is sleepy AI syndrome where the AI stops building offensive units, not for lack of resources either.
waits for you to go kill it, and when you do, it still doesnt build tanks to attack with.
but i havnt seen a game where this doesnt happen.
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