Need help developing 3.3.0 campaign

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Forgon
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Re: Need help developing 3.3.0 campaign

Post by Forgon » 14 Jun 2019, 20:52

alfred007 wrote:
14 Jun 2019, 14:04
I made a test with the changes for Alpha 01 and it's way tougher than before. I needed several tries to win the level. But I like it. @Forgon: What's your trick to win the level within 20 minutes? I never needed less than 25. ;)
[...]
I defeat the enemy with two assaults, for each of which I patiently
build units. Also, trucks drive over scavengers and pick up oil barrels.

I begin with an HQ, followed by a factory.
Then, I instantly recycle a truck and start building an MG tank.
The remaining trucks build a power generator and an oil derrick, which
triggers the scavengers. The trucks kill them, suffering little damage.
base_building.png
Base building
base_building.png (418.98 KiB) Viewed 564 times
As soon as 8 MGs have been built, the first assault begins.
first_assault.png
Group of 8 MGs and 2 trucks ready for the first assault
first_assault.png (361.56 KiB) Viewed 564 times
The objective is to take the first enemy base and two oil barrels.
The trucks drive up the road, killing scavengers and seizing an oil drum
in a valley to the north-east. Meanwhile, the MGs drive into the first
enemy base to quickly get the oil barrel therein and afterwards destroy
everything in the base.
first_base.png
Conquest of the first enemy base
first_base.png (413.63 KiB) Viewed 564 times
The trucks drive back into the occupied base and build its oil derrick
to speed up production.
Destroying that base has triggered a scavenger factory to the north.
While its savages rush south in small groups, the MGs hold their ground
and defeat them.
defense.png
Defense of the first enemy base
defense.png (424.21 KiB) Viewed 564 times
Once 14 MGs are available, they carefully destroy the base to the north.
To the east of that base are two valleys full of enemies, which must be
cleared. Ideally, the southern valley should be attacked first, because
it contains an oil drum which should be quickly seized by a truck. Then,
the northern valley should be cleared.

MGs should then move to destroy the next base, located in the west. Care
should be taken to minimize exposure to enemy fire by good positioning.
Obviously, reinforcements should be sent to the front as soon as they
become available. This can be important if a few scavengers slip through
our lines during the attack on the twin valleys and the western base.
western_base.png
Attack on the westernmost enemy base
western_base.png (415.36 KiB) Viewed 564 times
Trucks should move back to the defeated base to build its oil derrick,
the third one for the generator. Any remaining MGs should seize the
final base, keeping their distance from its flamer towers to destroy
them without needless casualties.
final_base.png
Attack on the final enemy base
final_base.png (460 KiB) Viewed 564 times
In this example, it took me 17:25 minutes to complete the mission.
I expect that good players will find find better strategies to win.

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Berserk Cyborg
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Re: Need help developing 3.3.0 campaign

Post by Berserk Cyborg » 17 Jun 2019, 07:37

On my first try, the mission timer was at 15:13 (completed in 14m47s) when I fully destroyed the last base on Insane. Had no more than six MGs at any given time and was, more or less, encouraged to pick up those two oil barrels that I never bother getting. So it's very much possible.

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Re: Need help developing 3.3.0 campaign

Post by alfred007 » 17 Jun 2019, 15:45

@Berserk Cyborg Well done :thank_you: :good:

I think if no experienced player is complaining that Alpha 01 is now too tough until the next week we can merge it into master.

Unfortunately, I had no time to test the unit limit mod last weekend but Thursday is a holiday in Germany and I have Friday free so I think I can give you more feedback until the end of this week.

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Re: Need help developing 3.3.0 campaign

Post by Forgon » 17 Jun 2019, 22:56

Berserk Cyborg wrote:
17 Jun 2019, 07:37
On my first try, the mission timer was at 15:13 (completed in 14m47s) when I fully destroyed the last base on Insane. Had no more than six MGs at any given time and was, more or less, encouraged to pick up those two oil barrels that I never bother getting. So it's very much possible.
Could you explain how you achieved this?
I am surprised by your claim that only six MGs are necessary.
You did not test with the camBalance branch, did you?

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Re: Need help developing 3.3.0 campaign

Post by Berserk Cyborg » 18 Jun 2019, 21:11

Forgon wrote:
17 Jun 2019, 22:56
You did not test with the camBalance branch, did you?
No. The camBalance mod might not work in master since the range stuff. I already rebased everything, manually, and just need to recreate the Alpha 3 map placements. Then I can upload a new version.
Forgon wrote:
17 Jun 2019, 22:56
I am surprised by your claim that only six MGs are necessary.
It's not terribly hard. Shuffle the damaged tanks behind the healthy tanks and you won't need such
a big army or use as much power.
Forgon wrote:
17 Jun 2019, 22:56
Could you explain how you achieved this?
Developers perk. I know exactly how the AI will react, what it's currently doing, where the trigger zones are, how fast the factories are, etc. Given that, my perspective is unique among most when beating missions. I could probably optimize out another minute cause I got sloppy on the third base and waited maybe too much to build a research lab in the beginning before attacking the first outpost for its oil resource.

Basically:
1. Built HQ, factory, generator.
2. Entered first trigger zone, killed the scavs, and destroyed all the nearby buildings for a little bit of experience (5 tanks).
3. Recycled 2 trucks and kept the last one for the sole purpose to capture oil and build a research lab.
4. Triggered the outpost zone, moved back to fend off the big scavenger hoard, then sent 5 tanks in to capture the oil in the outpost with one on sentry duty to scout for factory attack groups. Reinforcing it with the tanks attacking the outpost, if necessary.
5. Got the oil resource, started attacking the 2nd base, picked up the oil barrel in the valley SE of it. Positioned 5-6 tanks on the NE side to destroy the factory, then focused on the MG towers.
6. Got the oil here while positioning the truck so that any scavengers will attack the oil derrick, not the truck.
7. Destroyed the scavs in the valley, picked up the oil barrel here, and waited to ambush any scavenger groups while in the valley.
8. Once clear, I moved tanked to the NE side of the 3rd base and focused on destroying the factory and the closest towers. Then finished off the base (lost 4 units and finished the base with 2 units).
9. Got up to six MG tanks ready and destroyed the 4th factory ASAP. Picking off the defenses and base structures as needed.

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Re: Need help developing 3.3.0 campaign

Post by alfred007 » 20 Jun 2019, 15:29

I started a new campaign to test the unit limit patch and found an issue at the very beginning. The Viper MG template isn't shown in the factory. Neither if you build first the factory and then the HQ nor if you build the HQ first and then the factory. This is no problem for experienced players but will surely confuse new players if they see only a truck to produce in the factory menu. I know that you disabled saved templates for MP games but in campaign, it makes no sense.

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Re: Need help developing 3.3.0 campaign

Post by alfred007 » 20 Jun 2019, 17:11

I found a problem with repair units and the secondary hold order. When you have some repair units with the secondary hold order given and you have a damaged unit outside the repair range and you give then the repair units the manually order to repair this specific damaged unit they don't move to this unit. They show the repair animation but are not moving to this unit and the unit stays unrepaired. After you remove the secondary hold order the repair units are moving. This was not the behavior in version 3.1.5. Even with the secondary hold order, they were moving when you gave them the manually order to repair a specific unit.

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Re: Need help developing 3.3.0 campaign

Post by Berserk Cyborg » 20 Jun 2019, 17:58

alfred007 wrote:
20 Jun 2019, 15:29
This is no problem for experienced players but will surely confuse new players if they see only a truck to produce in the factory menu. I know that you disabled saved templates for MP games but in campaign, it makes no sense.
The MG Viper was simply disabled to be consistent with the rest of the game in cc6ea546e4e17800a1d29000689cadf92d9d13dc. Only multiplayer requires the HQ to be built to have access to non-truck saved templates.

Absolutely new players should go through the very short tutorial and understand how to build and design units. If such players existed they would never get far in the campaign in the first place. And even then, the infinite time on Alpha 1 and a little trial-and-error will show them that they need an HQ to design units anyway.
alred007 wrote: I found a problem with repair units and the secondary hold order. When you have some repair units with the secondary hold order given and you have a damaged unit outside the repair range and you give then the repair units the manually order to repair this specific damaged unit they don't move to this unit. They show the repair animation but are not moving to this unit and the unit stays unrepaired. After you remove the secondary hold order the repair units are moving. This was not the behavior in version 3.1.5. Even with the secondary hold order, they were moving when you gave them the manually order to repair a specific unit.
I'll look into this.

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Re: Need help developing 3.3.0 campaign

Post by WZ2100ModsFAn » 20 Jun 2019, 20:14

Berserk Cyborg wrote:
20 Jun 2019, 17:58
alfred007 wrote:
20 Jun 2019, 15:29
This is no problem for experienced players but will surely confuse new players if they see only a truck to produce in the factory menu. I know that you disabled saved templates for MP games but in campaign, it makes no sense.
The MG Viper was simply disabled to be consistent with the rest of the game in cc6ea546e4e17800a1d29000689cadf92d9d13dc. Only multiplayer requires the HQ to be built to have access to non-truck saved templates.

Absolutely new players should go through the very short tutorial and understand how to build and design units. If such players existed they would never get far in the campaign in the first place. And even then, the infinite time on Alpha 1 and a little trial-and-error will show them that they need an HQ to design units anyway.
Nevermind?
https://github.com/Warzone2100/warzone2 ... 9825046781
Apologies if i dont see your post
central time usa

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Re: Need help developing 3.3.0 campaign

Post by Berserk Cyborg » 20 Jun 2019, 21:21

alfred007 wrote:
20 Jun 2019, 17:11
Even with the secondary hold order, they were moving when you gave them the manually order to repair a specific unit.
Should be fixed in PR 398.

WZ2100ModsFAn wrote: Nevermind?
I'm not sure what you are trying to convey here...

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Re: Need help developing 3.3.0 campaign

Post by alfred007 » 21 Jun 2019, 01:19

Berserk Cyborg wrote:
20 Jun 2019, 21:21
alfred007 wrote:
20 Jun 2019, 17:11
Even with the secondary hold order, they were moving when you gave them the manually order to repair a specific unit.

Should be fixed in PR 398.
I'll test it next days.


Berserk Cyborg wrote:
20 Jun 2019, 21:21
WZ2100ModsFAn wrote: Nevermind?
I'm not sure what you are trying to convey here...
Me too.

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Re: Need help developing 3.3.0 campaign

Post by WZ2100ModsFAn » 21 Jun 2019, 02:57

alfred007 wrote:
21 Jun 2019, 01:19
Berserk Cyborg wrote:
20 Jun 2019, 21:21
WZ2100ModsFAn wrote: Nevermind?
I'm not sure what you are trying to convey here...
Me too.
Sorry for late reply.
I just found out so i said nevermind.
Apologies if i dont see your post
central time usa

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Re: Need help developing 3.3.0 campaign

Post by alfred007 » 23 Jun 2019, 17:15

With my tests for the unit limit patch, I'm at the moment at Alpha 06. I found new info in the logs. Unfortunately, I just noticed them today so that I can't clearly say if this was during Alpha 03 or Alpha 04. With a look at the time the files were made, I would say it was during Alpha 03. If you need exact information I can try to reproduce them. I have still the saves from these levels.
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logs.zip
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Berserk Cyborg
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Re: Need help developing 3.3.0 campaign

Post by Berserk Cyborg » 23 Jun 2019, 19:59

alfred007 wrote:
23 Jun 2019, 17:15
With a look at the time the files were made, I would say it was during Alpha 03.
That assert is harmless though it's probably the transporter moving backwards when it enters Alpha 3 (maybe others). I can replace it with a one time warning to make potential message spam less obnoxious.

Stopping this leads back to ticket 4793 sort of. Regarding what is specifically causing this on Alpha 3 is due to, what I believe, the transporters carrying over their velocity vector from the home map*. Depending on what direction it leaves the home map and what direction it must travel to at the drop off point, the transporter may decelerate backwards for a few seconds. Which may cause it to move off map, unintentionally.

*This video at 00:20 captures the situation perfectly. Only, back then, Warzone seems to have forced everything to stay within map bounds (notice how it appears to be "stuck" offworld for a few seconds before it can move. It's simply decelerating but not allowed off map). Currently, the transporter on this mission will move backwards off map.

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Re: Need help developing 3.3.0 campaign

Post by alfred007 » 24 Jun 2019, 17:44

During my testing, I found two more issues. As you can see on the picture below my trucks are repairing a repair facility from very far away. I don't know if that was intended but it is way too far away from where they can repair the repair facility. A saved game is attached, use alpha 06-08, wait a few seconds until the NP mortar damage the repair facility and then let truck group number one repair the facility.

wz2100-20190624_161747-CAM_1C.png

The second issue is with the secondary hold order. I placed two MG tanks attached to a Commander in the north to gain experience from the produced Scavengers. All are having the hold order but the MG tanks are moving slowly north with every Scavenger attack. Wait a few minutes in save alpha 06-09 and you will see. There is also an info in the log file.

Logs, saved games, and the mod I used are attached
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logs saves and mod.zip
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