Help needed testing 3.2.x Campaign games!

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Bethrezen
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Re: Help needed testing 3.2.x Campaign games!

Post by Bethrezen » 02 Jan 2018, 00:40

Ok so updated to the latest master
warzone2100-master-20171231-232536-991a4e8.exe (31-Dec-2017)

Tried out the changes to the lancers and the funding on Beta 01 and both seem better, however I do have a couple of other observations.

Firstly I don’t think the player should get HESH Rockets mk3 on Beta 01 because each upgrade is giving 48 points of damage for a total of 144 points of damage and give that your lancers start
Beta 01 at 304 damage that is an upgrade of almost 50% which is too much.

I do think the player needs at least 1 damage upgrade because without it the early Beta levels can actually be a struggle.

Second I'm of the opinion that the Lancers / Mini Rocket upgrades should be decupled from the cannon upgrades I don’t know why it was set up that way but I don't see what cannons have to do with making Rocket weapons better, having to do the Mini Rocket stuff before you get the lancer equivalents kinda makes sense since they are similar weapon systems but I don’t see what cannons have to do with improving rocket weapons therefore I'm of the opinion the prerequisites should be swapped around a bit.

Here is what I would go with

Start the level with
HE Flak,
APFSDS Cannon rounds,
HEAP Mini Rockets

The APFSDS Cannon rounds mk1 should unlock
The APFSDS Cannon rounds mk2 & Cannon Laser Designator & Cannon Autoloader

HEAP Mini Rockets mk1 should unlock
HEAP Mini Rockets mk2

HEAP Mini Rockets mk2 should unlock
HEAP Mini Rockets mk3

HEAP Mini Rockets mk3 should unlock
HESH Rockets mk1 & Rocket Laser Designator.

HESH Rockets mk1 should unlock HESH Rockets mk2

HESH Rockets mk3 should be moved to a later level

Not only does this make more sense but the ordering is consistent with the way mini rocket / lancer upgrades are ordered in alpha 06.

As for the rest of the research I think the ordering is fine and can be left as is.

Third while the damage level of the collectives lancer tanks and turrets is fine now I'm of the opinion that the collective Lancer VTOLs still need further adjustment because they are still one shotting my heavy body tracked lancers, or if they miss a shot reducing them to something like 200 hp from 1909hp so clearly they are still a bit to powerful

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Re: Help needed testing 3.2.x Campaign games!

Post by alfred007 » 02 Jan 2018, 14:25

Berserk Cyborg wrote:Pushed e4b71137eff696e16727cd3fb0f02f2ab4f7fd45. I did get to bringing back the mock battle between Nexus and Gamma. Is the mission too difficult? It kind of looks overpowering when the player enters the trap area.
We'll see. I think with two combat groups, one in the east and one in the west it is possible. Maybe we have to adjust the spawn times, but I want to play the level first before I give any suggestions. I don't know what to think about the reduction of the rescue time. On the one hand, it was 30 minutes in 3.1.5, on the other hand, you don't need so much time. I'll give you my opinion as soon as I played the level.

I have a look at the code of gamma 4 and I think this would become too difficult. If I understand the code right, all three phantom factories will produce up to 15 random units every 2 and a half minute. With insane difficulty, this time gets reduced to 1:40. And that means that you have 30 produced units plus the units that were already on the map against you when your first transport arrives. That's too much. In 3.1.5 the NE and the SW phantom factories only produced cyborgs. If I remember right 4 in the NE and 6 in the SW. Only in the SE random units. That's better to handle. And I think you should give every factory an individual spawn time. My suggestion: 3 minutes for NE, 4 minutes for SE and 6 minutes for SE, production starts when I can bring in reinforcements and vtols should be two alternate groups like I suggested for gamma 3. One group 4 bombers, one group 2 scourge vtols, alternately every two minutes, like in gamma 3. That would be more like in 3.1.5.

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Berserk Cyborg
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Re: Help needed testing 3.2.x Campaign games!

Post by Berserk Cyborg » 02 Jan 2018, 20:35

Pushed Bethrezen's Beta research order suggestions and made Gamma 3 & 4 alternate VTOL templates. And made Gamma 4 use separate phantom factory timers along with less units. c7bb50bec81a4f9a12632850271fb144bc013dc8. I highly suggest not being on a mission where VTOLs are being spawned and if anyone is on Beta, you may as well start that campaign over again.

I made HESH rockets mk3 depend on having the ripple rocket researched for Beta campaign.

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alfred007
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Re: Help needed testing 3.2.x Campaign games!

Post by alfred007 » 02 Jan 2018, 21:45

I updated to master e4b7113 and started testing gamma 3.
Berserk Cyborg wrote:It kind of looks overpowering when the player enters the trap area.
Yes, that's right. When you enter the trap area you have the 10 scourge cyborgs of the western base that are already on the map plus the produced units against you. And if the first transport would land in the western base you have not less than 28 up to 35 enemies against you including 15-20 scourge cyborgs in a small area. Together with the scourge cyborgs of the eastern base attacking you from the east.That's too much. You should give the phantom factory a queue before the production starts. I suggest 4 minutes after entering the trap area. Transporters can start immediately after entering the trap area.
And I remember, that the scourge cyborgs of the western base retreat for repair all together as soon as the first get hit. If I understand the wzscript right as soon as the first is down to 80% health. It's the same problem we have with the first cyborgs in gamma 2.
I add the logs of gamma 3 as far as I played the level and restart testing with master c7bb50b.

If I remember right you were able to pick up an artefact with a vtol in 3.1.5. In gamma 3 I couldn't. See the picture below. Is that intended?
wz2100-20180102_181349-CAM_3B.jpg
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logs gamma 3.zip
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Forgon
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Re: Help needed testing 3.2.x Campaign games!

Post by Forgon » 02 Jan 2018, 23:28

Alfred007, could you tell me why your radar frustum is green?

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alfred007
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Re: Help needed testing 3.2.x Campaign games!

Post by alfred007 » 02 Jan 2018, 23:35

Forgon wrote:Alfred007, could you tell me why your radar frustum is green?
I have no idea why.

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Berserk Cyborg
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Re: Help needed testing 3.2.x Campaign games!

Post by Berserk Cyborg » 02 Jan 2018, 23:42

I think it is a feature. There is a switch statement in setViewingWindow() within radar.cpp that hardcodes a green color for campaign 3.

It says not to allow VTOLs to pickup stuff in the order code. So I guess it is intended now.

Code: Select all

// go to recover an artifact/oil drum - don't allow VTOL's to get this order
else if (psObj->type == OBJ_FEATURE &&
	        (((FEATURE *)psObj)->psStats->subType == FEAT_GEN_ARTE ||
	         ((FEATURE *)psObj)->psStats->subType == FEAT_OIL_DRUM))
{
	if (!isVtolDroid(psDroid))
	{
		order = DroidOrder(DORDER_RECOVER, psObj);
	}
}
EDIT:
Pushed beba57fb74729eea8614e3eb32baa6dabc95ac26 which updates Gamma 3/5.

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alfred007
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Re: Help needed testing 3.2.x Campaign games!

Post by alfred007 » 03 Jan 2018, 23:49

I updated to master beba57f and restarted testing gamma 3. It's extremely tough and I needed several tries before I survived the first wave without a loss. Really worth to call it insane. Due to the fact, that I want to gain as much experience as possible I let both bases and the gamma factories alive and especially when the nexus transporter lands in the western base to the same time the land reinforcements arrive it's getting hot. I think we could the production time for land reinforcements let at 4 minutes but should increase the queue before the production starts to 5 minutes so that the transport units and the land reinforcement units in the west get less often unite.

I found two issues.

First, it seems, that nexus takes over gamma base when entering the mockBattleTrigger instead of when entering the trapTrigger. As you can see in the picture below the trapTrigger is still active, but Nexus has already taken the gamma base. The timer is at one hour and that means we are in the second part of the level.
wz2100-20180103_141207-CAM_3B.jpg
Second, and worse, the level doesn't end. I add a saved game when all enemy units and buildings are destroyed and there is still a blip for a base. This is not the original blip for the eastern base but is made by the landing Nexus transport. After I destroyed the western base the transporter only landed in the eastern base as he should, but creates this base blip.

I also add adjusted assemblies for gamma base factories.
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gamma 3.zip
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Berserk Cyborg
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Re: Help needed testing 3.2.x Campaign games!

Post by Berserk Cyborg » 04 Jan 2018, 00:17

alfred007 wrote: First, it seems, that nexus takes over gamma base when entering the mockBattleTrigger instead of when entering the trapTrigger. As you can see in the picture below the trapTrigger is still active, but Nexus has already taken the gamma base. The timer is at one hour and that means we are in the second part of the level.
Oops, too fast. mockBattleTrigger removes the alliance between Nexus and Gamma base so that Nexus can attack and destroy part of Gamma base and activate the Nexus groups. Will make it last longer. trapTrigger is only useful to immediately take over Gamma base should the player try rushing past it.
alfred007 wrote: Second, and worse, the level doesn't end. I add a saved game when all enemy units and buildings are destroyed and there is still a blip for a base. This is not the original blip for the eastern base but is made by the landing Nexus transport. After I destroyed the western base the transporter only landed in the eastern base as he should, but creates this base blip.
Looks like it thinks Gamma base has not been eliminated. Could you upload a save on Gamma 2? Pre-away mission or not is ok.

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alfred007
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Re: Help needed testing 3.2.x Campaign games!

Post by alfred007 » 04 Jan 2018, 00:36

Berserk Cyborg wrote:Looks like it thinks Gamma base has not been eliminated. Could you upload a save on Gamma 2? Pre-away mission or not is ok.
There you have it.
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Re: Help needed testing 3.2.x Campaign games!

Post by Berserk Cyborg » 04 Jan 2018, 01:55

Pushed 8e053d20c7c2057503c4cc8fc57c834839c6d14f. I was able to finish the mission.

O_o I guess it though Gamma base was an ally so that it did not need to add anything to the base. Wonder when that started to happen.

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Re: Help needed testing 3.2.x Campaign games!

Post by OFelix » 04 Jan 2018, 02:11

Played today's Git version.

Campaign - Beta.

Had an issue where the hammer symbol was still illuminated when I had no trucks.
When I click it nothing is displayed at the bottom center.

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Re: Help needed testing 3.2.x Campaign games!

Post by Berserk Cyborg » 04 Jan 2018, 19:30

Forgot about the transporter blip. Will fix that in future commit.
OFelix wrote: Had an issue where the hammer symbol was still illuminated when I had no trucks.
When I click it nothing is displayed at the bottom center.
Happens with multiplayer as well. Don't know why, but trying to update the reticule buttons when called from eventDestroyed does not work if called immediately. If I queue it 100ms later then it updates the state of the reticule button. Rules.js needs to subscribe to eventObjectTransfer to update the build button should a player be gifted a constructor droid should they have none.

Edit:
Gamma 3 removes transporter blips when either the east or west bases are destroyed in 0908db6639896a28bec9efb6efd90488f50c9050. And apparently I'm not good at testing so df29772f5470d6020fb126f11f0a963c1c443774.

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alfred007
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Re: Help needed testing 3.2.x Campaign games!

Post by alfred007 » 05 Jan 2018, 18:45

I updated to master df29772 and tested Gamma 3 again. Now I could finish the level. Looks good so far. Two thoughts: You should set the time for the rescue part back to 30 minutes. For normal difficulty, it will make not really a difference, but especially with insane difficulty you need all the time you can get to store power. The preparation for Gamma 5 costs a lot of power and with the power limit of 16,000, you can get some problems. And I think every land reinforcement should be set to a minimum of 10 units. Range up to 15 is ok, but there should be at least as many units like in a transporter. I will move on with testing Gamma 4 tomorrow.

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Re: Help needed testing 3.2.x Campaign games!

Post by Bethrezen » 05 Jan 2018, 20:27

Beta 02

I'm wondering what do you think about giving the units that you rescue on Beta 02 some experience to make Beta 02 a bit more worth while, because right now those units are only good for recycling as soon as you get back to base because they have no experience, not to mention the fact that cannons are pretty worthless anyway because they are simply to weak to effective I mean they have more or less the same rate of fire as lancers and about 1/3 the damage and yes you can argue that they have heavier armour which is why they are not as powerful but ultimately you don't need heavy armour if you can kill your opponent in a matter of seconds, you only need to be able to survive long enough to get your salvo off and crush what ever you are shooting at before its gets you, which is why i generally use lancer over cannons even though cannons are more heavy armoured.

also with regards to Beta 02 would it be possible for the units that are at the crash site to be the actual units that where on the drop ship should the player try to bring in more then 40 units rather than some worthless generic newb units so that the player isn't loosing experienced units on transition, now before you say it yes i know you can recycle your excess experienced units and then rebuild them on beta and doing so will allow you to retain the experience they have earned having said that this fact isn't necessarily obvious to new players, so i feel like a slight change to how this works is in order well assuming that its possible that is, and obviously if you only bring in 40 units then you just get 10 generic units on beta 02 as you do currently.

[edit]

Also I'd check your fix to stop players resuming and completing a level they have already failed because it seems a little buggy.

Image Image

as you can see in the first screen shot when I open the load screen the game over screen is still visible in the background which is incorrect.

As you can see in the second screen shot I was still able to resume a failed game, this seems a little bit inconsistent sometimes when i resume a failed game it will take me back to the start screen after a few seconds but sometimes it doesn't.

Realistically the player shouldn't be able to close the game over screen and resume a failed level at all so i think you probably need to take another go at this what about simply disabling the escape key when the player fails a mission that way it should be impossible for the player to close the game over screen and resume a failed level.

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