Help needed testing 3.2.x Campaign games!

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Bethrezen
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Re: Help needed testing 3.2.x Campaign games!

Post by Bethrezen » 10 Feb 2019, 03:05

If you really want to apply these dpm's to a half-tracked Scorpion body unit they are way, way, way too high. As I calculated in my last post, the currently overpowered Lancer in the master version is doing a dpm of 1008 against this unit. And now you want to apply a 50% higher damage for the Lancer. That makes no sense. If these values are the base damages per minute before you apply it against a unit than these values are saying nothing. Let me show you what I mean:

Three theoretical weapons of the same weaponEffect and same accuracy. The propulsion modifier is set to 100 for easier calculation.

Weapon 1
Damage 200
ROF 10
Accuracy 50%
DPM 2000

Weapon 2
Damage 100
ROF 20
Accuracy 50%
DPM 2000

Weapon 3
Damage 40
ROF 50
Accuracy 50%
DPM 2000

As you can see all three weapons are having the same DPM. Now let us see what happens when they shoot at a Scorpion body unit with one metal upgrade (armour = 16)

Weapon 1
(200 - 16) x 10 x 0.5 = 920
Weapon 2
(100 - 16) x 20 x 0.5 = 840
Weapom 3
(40 - 16) x 50 x 0.5 = 600

As you can see, the same base damage per minute but a different effect against a Scorpion body unit. That's why I suggested in my last post that all damages should be calculated against a reference unit. Because only these values are comparable and give us a hint of the real effect in the game. Base damage per minute says nothing. Especially when we are talking about weapons with different weaponEffects.
Once again you are missing the point that I'm getting at, now I know that this isn’t the case but let say for arguments sake that the light cannon, heavy machine-gun and flamer all do around 700 damage per minute, clearly this is to weak vs the new paradigm units due to the fact that they are more heavily armoured and again lets say for the sake of argument that the minimum damage these weapons need to do in order to be viable vs the new paradigm is around 1200 per min now in order to keep everything on par you need to increase the damage of the other weapons by the same amount, it could be 50% it could be 100% in this context the amount its self doesn't matter.

The point is if you buff the underpowered weapons to make them viable and don’t buff the other weapons by the same amount then there will be no point in having medium and heavy weapons because then the light weapons will be doing the same damage as the medium and heavy weapons even if you buff the light weapons by a smaller amount say 15% / 25% what ever you would still have to buff the medium and heavy weapons by the same amount so yes that means the medium and heavy weapons need to be made a bit stronger unfortunately this is unavoidable, and this is what happens when you nurf the heavy weapons so much you leave your self no room for manoeuvre when you are trying to balance the other weapons.

Also have you actually tried the flamer light cannon and heavy machine-gun with a damage range of around 1000 to 1200 damage per min because I have and they aren't nearly as overpowered as you are trying to make out, and even if setting the damage to around 1000 to 1200 damage per minute is a bit much that's no problem as we can incrementally reduce the damage from there.

You may think what i suggested is overpowered and maybe it is and maybe it isn't ultimately you can't know for sure until you try it out because as has already been mentioned we can't calculate the damage per minute exactly, and even if we could it wouldn't matter because while a given value might seem overpowered when you are looking purely at the numbers what is important is how it actually feels in game, because I can't count the number of time we set a given value for a weapon only to have it feel really weak and underpowered when you actually play those units, and that is what is happening right now with flamer light cannon and heavy machine-gun, they feel really weak and underpowered, so much so that they are bordering on completely useless.

As xNEXTx wrote, the upgrades are additional. When you have for example three upgrades of each 30% it's calculated 1 + (30 + 30 + 30) /100, so that the resulting value after the upgrades is 90% higher than the base value. It's not 1.3 x 1.3 x 1.3. That would result in a 120% higher value.
where's it say that because it doesn't tell you the formula for upgrade on

http://betaguide.wz2100.net/Formulas.html

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alfred007
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Re: Help needed testing 3.2.x Campaign games!

Post by alfred007 » 10 Feb 2019, 14:27

Bethrezen wrote:Once again you are missing the point that I'm getting at...
Obviously, and to make clear for me what damages you really want please give us a suggestion of damage, ROF, and accuracy for the weapons you are talking about. This would make it more clear in what way you want to go.
Bethrezen wrote:...we can't calculate the damage per minute exactly...
That's right, but our calculations can give us a hint if our suggested values are worth to test it or if they would only waste of time.

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vexed
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Re: Help needed testing 3.2.x Campaign games!

Post by vexed » 11 Feb 2019, 04:39

Please see the new thread for the release builds. viewtopic.php?f=1&t=15117
/facepalm ...Grinch stole Warzone🙈🙉🙊 contra principia negantem non est disputandum
Super busy, don't expect a timely reply back.

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alfred007
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Re: Help needed testing 3.2.x Campaign games!

Post by alfred007 » 11 Feb 2019, 12:03

Now that 3.3.0 beta 1 is released we should close this thread and open a new one for our rebalancing work. Our work is hidden is this thread because it has nothing to do with the name of the thread. My hope is that more player will join us for rebalancing.

Forgon
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Re: Help needed testing 3.2.x Campaign games!

Post by Forgon » 13 Feb 2019, 23:29

I have opened the new thread "Need help developing 3.3.0 campaign" so that this topic can be closed.

Cameron658
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Re: Help needed testing 3.2.x Campaign games!

Post by Cameron658 » 21 Oct 2019, 13:39

This topic is so interesting and helpful for my work.

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