Help needed testing 3.2.x Campaign games!

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alfred007
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Re: Help needed testing 3.2.x Campaign games!

Post by alfred007 » 23 Sep 2017, 19:02

Bethrezen wrote:With regards to what is causing the enemy units to bug as per my previous save that's what I'm going to investigate next, now currently i have 2 theories the first is that it is a reload issue, the second is its something to do with me destroying there sensor towers, however i wont know which till i test both possibilities.
I saved my alpha 12 game from my post above and reloaded it and the cyborgs comes to attack me as soon as there are a group of four of each factory together. It seems it's not a problem of savegames. I have another suggestion: Was in your game a moment where you had only hover units on the map? Maybe if they are all over water there are no units on the map that the cyborgs could attack. And then they collect them around their factories.

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Re: Help needed testing 3.2.x Campaign games!

Post by Berserk Cyborg » 23 Sep 2017, 19:23

-Philosopher- wrote: Yes, I understood that. I was trying to understand what the specific dependencies are/were i.e. what opens up Composite Alloys Mk2 to be able to be researched? My current theory is Composite Alloys Mk1 (obviously) + (vehicle, not cyborg) factory (if structure dependencies were enforced). Is that correct?
Yes. I would also point out that only Alpha campaign ever used these checks.
-Philosopher- wrote: Don't suppose you know what the old dependencies for bombard emplacement were in wzcam, too? It didn't seem to be structure dependent in wzcam... but actually was it? It's now available 5 stages earlier in jscam - is that also to do with removing the "required structure" dependency?
Do not remember. I think it was awarded to the player when getting to Beta. In the end, it is probably a (good) side effect of when I reorganized the campaign tech (a696594896c9ec605d29bc58eb9b77af13e822f4).
-Philosopher- wrote: Are you treating LZs as bases in jscam? In wzcam, they're quite clearly not and demonstrate quite a few subtle differences in behaviour - most noticeable of which is they don't "clean up" (walls explode spontaneously) when they close, and there are different audio messages of course.
Yes, all other ones are treated that way. It is something that would need library support and treating them as a base with an LZ is the most practical way as of now.
-Philosopher- wrote: Re. the transport blips, have you looked into the timing of when they switch on for each transport? They seemed a lot slower to appear in jscam than wzcam (to the extent I'd be seeing red blips on the structures they were attacking before I saw the blip for the transporter in jscam). In wzcam they seemed to come on as the associated transporter slowed down to a hover before descending to drop their contents.
Blips appear, if any, when the transporter has landed completely. Then the previous one is removed when the next one appears on map.
-Philosopher- wrote: This seems to work well now, but something has gone wrong with the NE Scav base - it isn't clearing up now.
It cleared up for me. Did you miss something? Edit: On second thought, wonder if a truck building something would mess up base auto removal.
Bethrezen wrote: Your best bet is to check the warzone tech tree to answer questions like that here this should help
No, that is for skirmish/multiplayer (and is somewhat outdated). Campaign tech is very loose with tech dependency and makes a lot of assumptions. I tried to make it so that similar research depends on each other for the most part, but it is easy to miss something. That is why I enabled research logging to be dumped to the mission logs.
Last edited by Berserk Cyborg on 23 Sep 2017, 23:45, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Help needed testing 3.2.x Campaign games!

Post by Bethrezen » 23 Sep 2017, 23:22

I saved my alpha 12 game from my post above and reloaded it and the cyborgs comes to attack me as soon as there are a group of four of each factory together. It seems it's not a problem of savegames. I have another suggestion: Was in your game a moment where you had only hover units on the map? Maybe if they are all over water there are no units on the map that the cyborgs could attack. And then they collect them around their factories.
Not on the save that I posted the way it went down was as follows brought in lancer squad 2 as they where less experienced and had then move to the east to take out the welcoming party once they where down I push further east and took out the first lot of lancers turrets I then pulled back for repair took out any enemy units then showed up and then pushed east again taking out the rest of the lancer turrets and collecting the artefact that took about 10 minutes give or take

While that was happening I was bringing in lancer squad 1 to guard my LZ from hover craft attack.

While I waited for the hover artefact to research I brought in my bombard squad, once the hovercraft artefact was done I recycle lancer squad 1 and turned them in to hover units leaving my bombards to guard the LZ from hovercraft attack till I could rebuild lancer squad one and get them back in once lancer squad 1 was ready I brought them back in and recycles my bombard squad and then rebuild them as hovercraft and brought them back in once lancer squad 1 and bombard squad where assembled I moved up the west side of the map knocking out there sensor turrets as I went.

All the while lancer squad 2 remained in there staring position killing any units then came to my LZ

so you can see that at no time where all my units hovercraft not on that save.
No, that is for skirmish/multiplayer (and is somewhat outdated). Campaign tech is very loose with tech dependency and makes a lot of assumptions. I tried to make it so that similar research depends on each other for the most part, but it is easy to miss something. That is why I enabled research logging to be dumped to the mission logs.
fair enough.

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Re: Help needed testing 3.2.x Campaign games!

Post by Bethrezen » 24 Sep 2017, 01:42

Ok so been giving v1.10 a go and so far I've noticed the following differences from the current master.

General Differences

1.) Wheeled propulsion seem to have been nurfed in the current version

On v1.10 the values for wheels are

Road speed: 175
Off road speed: 166
Water speed: 0
Weight: 1000

On the current master the values are

Road speed: 1.37
Off road speed: 1.37
Water speed: 0
Weight: 1800

So unless that was a deliberate change those values should be corrected.

There also seems to be a bunch of other balance differences as well, flamers for example seem to have less burn damage in the current master than in v1.10 because on the current master flamers are no threat to me at all but on v1.10 the burn damage from flamers killed my units repeatedly.

Machine guns and Twin Machine guns also seem to have slightly shorter ranges in the current master than in v1.10

On v1.10 the range values are

Machine gun / Twin Machine gun
Range - 760

On the current build the range values are

Machine gun / Twin Machine gun
Range - 6.0

Now if I'm understanding this correctly then shouldn’t Machine gun & Twin Machine guns should have a range of 7.6 not 6.0 ?

So again unless that was a deliberate change those values should be corrected.

Alpha 01

Seemed fine can't say I noticed anything, other than on v1.10 alpha 01 has no timer at all although I can understand why that was changed and I think the current timer for alpha 01 is fine.

Alpha 02

1.) The clean up area where you collect the scanner artefact on alpha 02 seems to be incorrect on the current build it shouldn't contain any of the turrets round the back of the hill those to belong to the base where you collect the generator artefact in v1.10.

2.) The way the power module is handled is different on v1.10 as well if you ended Alpha 02 without building the power module then you would get the cut scene informing you that you have acquired the power module and that you should upgrade your power plants before moving on and then you would get an interlude that had no timer and upon building the power module the timer for alpha 03 would begin.

If you've already built the power module then the cut scene is skipped and you go striate into the away mission.

Now personally I'm of the opinion that giving the player a timeless interlude between alpha 02 and alpha 03 is a stupid idea that leads to oil exploits, however on a personal note I don’t like the the set up the way it is just now since the timer for alpha 03 is tight enough without having to dilly dally about building power modules that you should have build on the previous level.

Therefore my recommendation is as follows

a.) Make building the power module a requirement for ending alpha 02 and give the player the cut scene about building the power module upon completing the power module research.

b.) Give the player the cut scene about building the power module upon completing the power module research, and remove the requirement to build the power module altogether so that the player can build it when ever they like just as it is with the research module.

c.) Make building the power module a requirement to end alpha 02 and only give the player the cut scene about building the power module if they try to end alpha 02 without building it.

Alpha 03

I checked the timer on this level and on both hard and normal the timer is set at 15 minutes on v1.10 therefore the timer has only changed for insane in the current master.

I also note that on v1.10 this level only ends when you return to the LZ even if you have destroyed all units and structures.

The behaviour of the scav's also seems subtly different as well, I'm not really sure how to describe it, more aggressive maybe.

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Re: Help needed testing 3.2.x Campaign games!

Post by Twister22 » 24 Sep 2017, 02:16

-Philosopher- wrote:Alpha 08 on 87be78b
-cam1-4a: Emulate some blip removal and appearance behavior.
This seems to work well now, but something has gone wrong with the NE Scav base - it isn't clearing up now:
Image
... at least not visually. The level otherwise completed fine, however.
Please don't use postimg :shock:
they have porn there
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Re: Help needed testing 3.2.x Campaign games!

Post by alfred007 » 24 Sep 2017, 15:00

I started testing beta 4 and had a lot of issues. I started from the end of beta 3 and after I landed after 2 minutes only 2 vtol's attacked me and then no more. When the Commander tried to escape he fought till his death instead of walking back to the NW base as he did in 3.1.5. That would it make possible to win that level in less than 15 minutes. Too easy. And after I catched the artifact I got the message to return to my LZ, but when all my units were in my LZ the game didn't stop. After that issues I didn't play beta 4 till the end, but stopped there.

Edit: Weird. After I reloaded my last save the vtol's spawned and attack me. But still the level is not ending, despite I covered the artifact, resarch it and all my units are in my LZ.
Edit 2: And now I just attacked just for fun the units that are attacking me and level ended. But my units were all in my LZ before, I checked it in debug mode. I will have later another look on it, by starting from the beginn of beta 4 instead of the end of beta 3.
Attachments
beta 4.zip
(615.89 KiB) Downloaded 14 times
Last edited by alfred007 on 24 Sep 2017, 16:54, edited 2 times in total.

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Re: Help needed testing 3.2.x Campaign games!

Post by -Philosopher- » 24 Sep 2017, 15:26

Bethrezen wrote:@Philosopher
If you are looking to do a comparison between how Warzone was and how it is now. ...
Hey @Bethrezen (& @Terminator), thanks for this. I took a brief look at it when @Terminator made his post, but it got more involved than I've time for at the moment, so this is useful.

Comparison between old and new versions is more a means to an end than the actual objective of what I'm doing at the moment, but if/when I get to looking at the differences specifically - or I just get curious - I'll look into this. I think it only makes sense to focus on the comparison when there's an appetite for discussing and acting on whatever differences are found, but a certain level of familiarity with how it was is useful - helps sort out what is and isn't a bug when I come across things in jscam that are 'hinky' and it also helps with avoiding inadvertently introducing new differences in the current work.

I'd be keen to do something about the resolution however - I wonder if (e.g.) running it in dosbox might offer options, or are these old games permanently stuck in 1024x768? Anyone know?

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Re: Help needed testing 3.2.x Campaign games!

Post by alfred007 » 24 Sep 2017, 15:41

Philosopher wrote:are these old games permanently stuck in 1024x768?
In 1999 when Warzone was published 1024x768 was the highest resolution that existed. So no higher resolution is coded.

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Re: Help needed testing 3.2.x Campaign games!

Post by -Philosopher- » 24 Sep 2017, 15:53

Berserk Cyborg wrote:
-Philosopher- wrote: This seems to work well now, but something has gone wrong with the NE Scav base - it isn't clearing up now.
It cleared up for me. Did you miss something? Edit: On second thought, wonder if a truck building something would mess up base auto removal.
I'm certain I didn't miss anything. I did the god-mode check at the end and made a point of destroying all but a single NP structure in the west (to keep the level active). It did seem odd at the time - it used to clear up fine. As always, I made a number of saves as the stage progressed. Would they help you find the issue? I'll upload a selection if they'd be useful.
Berserk Cyborg wrote:
Bethrezen wrote: Your best bet is to check the warzone tech tree to answer questions like that here this should help
No, that is for skirmish/multiplayer (and is somewhat outdated). Campaign tech is very loose with tech dependency and makes a lot of assumptions. I tried to make it so that similar research depends on each other for the most part, but it is easy to miss something. That is why I enabled research logging to be dumped to the mission logs.
I didn't think they were the same (hence asking). Thanks for confirming.
Twister22 wrote: Please don't use postimg :shock:
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???

Not with their consent: https://postimages.org/terms

I was using it because others here were and it's convenient. What do you suggest I use? I imagine undesirable material exists on most sharing sites if you look hard enough. Not sure that should be a reason for not using them unless they're somehow supporting it (?)

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Re: Help needed testing 3.2.x Campaign games!

Post by Twister22 » 24 Sep 2017, 16:39

-Philosopher- wrote:I was using it because others here were and it's convenient. What do you suggest I use? I imagine undesirable material exists on most sharing sites if you look hard enough. Not sure that should be a reason for not using them unless they're somehow supporting it (?)
It's just that you can also use the upload attachment next to your posting options and upload pictures
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Re: Help needed testing 3.2.x Campaign games!

Post by Berserk Cyborg » 24 Sep 2017, 18:46

alfred007 wrote:I started testing beta 4 and had a lot of issues. I started from the end of beta 3 and after I landed after 2 minutes only 2 vtol's attacked me and then no more. When the Commander tried to escape he fought till his death instead of walking back to the NW base as he did in 3.1.5. That would it make possible to win that level in less than 15 minutes. Too easy. And after I catched the artifact I got the message to return to my LZ, but when all my units were in my LZ the game didn't stop. After that issues I didn't play beta 4 till the end, but stopped there.
Fixed VTOLs being removed too early and made the commander group retreat back to the NW base if trying to flee the map and one of them is attacked. Will look into the LZ bug next.

EDIT:
I know what is going on here now. It is counting everything that the player owns in the LZ. Going to change it to count only droids.

@-Philosopher-, do you still have a save with the Alpha 8 base not cleaning up correctly? If so, then upload it.

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Re: Help needed testing 3.2.x Campaign games!

Post by alfred007 » 24 Sep 2017, 19:19

@Berserk Cyborg
OK, I will start testing beta 4 again when the changes are pushed to buildbot. Should I start from the end of beta 3 or can I use the save from the beginning of beta 4 before I started the transporter?

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Re: Help needed testing 3.2.x Campaign games!

Post by Berserk Cyborg » 24 Sep 2017, 19:53

alfred007 wrote:@Berserk Cyborg
OK, I will start testing beta 4 again when the changes are pushed to buildbot. Should I start from the end of beta 3 or can I use the save from the beginning of beta 4 before I started the transporter?
Pushed 81c95fd. It is best to always assume a change will break the save with the mission that was updated (hence why I say to keep saves on pre-away missions since those would rarely ever be changed).

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Re: Help needed testing 3.2.x Campaign games!

Post by Twister22 » 24 Sep 2017, 22:51

alfred007 wrote:
Philosopher wrote:are these old games permanently stuck in 1024x768?
In 1999 when Warzone was published 1024x768 was the highest resolution that existed. So no higher resolution is coded.
Actually I have the oblivionburn version and to my calculations the resolution is supposed to be
1280x1024
found it!
viewtopic.php?f=3&t=12519
basically i found out by reading the shortcuts
can't really play it because i'm on the windows 10 creators update
which gives me an error when i try to run it
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Re: Help needed testing 3.2.x Campaign games!

Post by -Philosopher- » 24 Sep 2017, 23:11

Berserk Cyborg wrote:@-Philosopher-, do you still have a save with the Alpha 8 base not cleaning up correctly? If so, then upload it.
Here 'tis -
Alpha 08-Scav Base Clearup Issue.zip
(293.9 KiB) Downloaded 16 times
[edit]
It's supposed to be saves from before destroying the base in question, just after and at the end of the stage, but the middle one isn't right - looks like it's just before - but you can see the issue in the final save, and one of the other two might be set up enough for you to recreate it (fingers crossed).

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